Emotional reaction based on HOW you win or lose a hand?

[Ulysses]

Check out this thread in the NL forum:

How you feel when you win/lose hands

I elaborate in excruciating detail in my two responses to the initial post. The gist of my two responses is that when I win a hand or lose the hand, my excitement or annoyance at the result has much less to do with the size of the pot won or the severity of the bad beat taken and much more to do with the manner in which the hand played out.

When it comes to losing, I basically don't care if I bet big, someone calls, then hits some lucky card to give me a really bad beat. But if I do things like manipulate the betting to my advantage and know exactly how the hand is going to play out, then somehow lose it, I get annoyed even if the guy was drawing very, very live.

Conversely, when I win a huge pot because I have the nuts and he has the second nuts, it's just ho-hum to me. But if I somehow end up winning a big pot w/ a huge hand vs. something really weak, it really gets me jazzed.

Do others share these type of feelings or do most people just love winning big pots and hate getting really bad beats?

[LetsRock]

Yes, I have similar reactions based on "how" it came to pass. In general, I don't mind the beat as much if my opponent played the hand well and just ended up with the better cards; I hate it when the fish played the hand very poorly and just stumbled onto a winner.

On the dragging side of things, I do feel a little guilty, if my good hand catches a lucky win, than a hand that was better but got outdrawn (ie my AQ catches a Q on the river to beat an AK). I get more satisfaction if I played a hand "just right" and beat another strong player. Playing a fish out of his money is just not as much fun - kind of the difference between shooting at a stationary target ot a moving one I would guess. If I'm just playing ABC poker, I really don't care about the who or how, just that I won a pot I "deserved".

[Duke]

I rarely get jazzed about winning a pot. Given that I'm usually supposed to win the pots that I enter, and usually get the hell out when I don't have a shot at either maknig a guy dump a better hand, or catching up a reasonable amount of the time... I'm supposed to win the pots.

And the bad beats are really what get to me. I'm not talking about a flush draw getting there, but when a guy with nothing but a gut shot goes 5 bets with you on the turn heads up, and then hits it, well, that sorta kinda really makes me want to puke. Mainly because that has not happened to me when I have won - ever. Honestly, when is the last time someone went a ridiculous number of bets with you on the turn, and then your set or whatever held up, and they show their
busted gut shot? Like... I've never gone 5+ bets on the turn and then had a guy fold for one on the river, like a 7 high would have to. But I've lost to gutterballs 4 times with that action heads up.

Yeah, I guess there isn't much of an emotional up-side to playing cards for me, just the feeling at the end of my really good days when I have an extra grand or whatever. Only a down-side. The up-side is strictly financial. Maybe a bit of relief, if anything?

~D

[Ulysses]

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I rarely get jazzed about winning a pot. ... I'm supposed to win the pots.

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I agree. That was part of my point. The vast majority of pots we're in, it's like, yeah I have the best hand, give me the money, ho hum. So it takes this very unique set of circumstances to get me excited about winning a pot. I kind of miss when I started and it was like "YAHOO! I WIN!" all the time.


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but when a guy with nothing but a gut shot goes 5 bets with you on the turn heads up, and then hits it, well, that sorta kinda really makes me want to puke.

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The other point of my post was that this no longer affects me. I think this comes from playing online. B&M, this type of scenario was relatively rare, so it would be sickening when it happened, just based on the severity of the bad beat. But online, every night I run into someone who will cap their POS draw on the turn. It doesn't even surprise me any more. Sure, you'll never get that much from him when the scenario is reversed. But you know you'll more than make it up the next few times he has a gutshot. That's what makes it all sort of boring and mechanical in a way a lot of the time.

[Lawrence Ng]

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Yes, I have similar reactions based on "how" it came to pass. In general, I don't mind the beat as much if my opponent played the hand well and just ended up with the better cards; I hate it when the fish played the hand very poorly and just stumbled onto a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can someone react more postively losing to good players as oppose to losing to a worse player who happened to get lucky? It's a complete contradiction to this game. The success of this game in the long run is to take all advantage of the weaker players. I will gladly feel better about some fish calling my 4 bet raise on the turn with some gutshot draw and getting lucky than have myself losing to a better player - because then I am the fish.

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On the dragging side of things, I do feel a little guilty, if my good hand catches a lucky win, than a hand that was better but got outdrawn (ie my AQ catches a Q on the river to beat an AK). I get more satisfaction if I played a hand "just right" and beat another strong player. Playing a fish out of his money is just not as much fun - kind of the difference between shooting at a stationary target ot a moving one I would guess. If I'm just playing ABC poker, I really don't care about the who or how, just that I won a pot I "deserved".

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me tell you something, the fish don't mind playing you out of your money. The fish are unforgiving and relentless. The fish HAVE fun taking your money. So if you feel less of a challenge playing a fish, as oppose to playing a better player in poker then I wonder how really can be a winning player in the long run.

[LetsRock]

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How can someone react more postively losing to good players as oppose to losing to a worse player who happened to get lucky?

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Well let's see if I can explain it. It's really clear in my mind, but that doesn't mean a thing.

I don't know if you golf, but let's say you're on the 18th hole. I'm really bad and you gave me 30 strokes. We both played the best we could and we are now tied. We have $500 dollars riding on the game.

You hit your shot - it's "perfect" (in the golf world) coming to rest 2" from the cup. You played it perfectly. You start counting your money.

I'm your opponent, the nerves get to me and I hit an awful looking shot. It bounces off 12 trees, hits the club house, bounces off the cart path hits a bird and happens to fall in the hole. You just lost $500 to complete and absolute dumb luck. How do you feel about that?

Wouldn't you have not minded losing as much if we were equal opponents, we both played well, we're still tied, you bring it to rest within 2 inches. I happen to hit it perfectly as well and mine happens to go in. Sure I was lucky, but my skill was good enough to put me in a position to be lucky. You still lost, but wouldn't you be more apt to congradulate me on a great shot instead of puking your guts out because of mindless stupid luck?

This is a no brainer to me.

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So if you feel less of a challenge playing a fish, as oppose to playing a better player in poker then I wonder how really can be a winning player in the long run.


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I don't know that it's a lesser challenge - just a different one. How can I be a winning player in the long run if didn't scale the fish?

Hmmm...by beating other good players? I want to be good enough to do that. I want to be so good that I can sit down with any group of players in the world and compete with them on their level. I want the gamesmanship of poker, not the "sit and wait till I catch great cards so I can smoke some fish poker". If I'm in a tough spot in a hand I want to worried if my opponent has QQ, not 74.

Am I there yet? Of course not. But that doesn't mean I can't have a dream and a goal. I'll probably never get there. I'll probably be stuck trying to smoke fish the rest of my life. Sure there's money in it, but that doesn't necessarily make it fun.

Am I not allowed to view this game from my own angle, have my own desires, and goals? Or must I get in line and march to your drummer?

[Redhotman]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out this thread in the NL forum:

How you feel when you win/lose hands

I elaborate in excruciating detail in my two responses to the initial post. The gist of my two responses is that when I win a hand or lose the hand, my excitement or annoyance at the result has much less to do with the size of the pot won or the severity of the bad beat taken and much more to do with the manner in which the hand played out.

When it comes to losing, I basically don't care if I bet big, someone calls, then hits some lucky card to give me a really bad beat. But if I do things like manipulate the betting to my advantage and know exactly how the hand is going to play out, then somehow lose it, I get annoyed even if the guy was drawing very, very live.

Conversely, when I win a huge pot because I have the nuts and he has the second nuts, it's just ho-hum to me. But if I somehow end up winning a big pot w/ a huge hand vs. something really weak, it really gets me jazzed.

Do others share these type of feelings or do most people just love winning big pots and hate getting really bad beats?

[/ QUOTE ]

For a while i played 6 tables of 3/6 so u can imagine that i got so used to winning and losing alot at a time that it became meaningless. never had a chance to go on tilt or get happy or mad cause i always had another hand to focus on. This has carried over to NL for me.

The only time I get pissed is when I make a REALLY nice set-up, someon falls for it and then they catch that one card in the deck that bails them out.

But if I go all-in for $500 against two other stacks, its just another hand, imo.

What also can "get to me" is when my computer locks up in the middle of play, or i have to wait for the bb cause i didnt post in time. this is infuriating, lol.

[MaxPower]

I guess because I have played so much low limit poker I get a big kick out of when I win a pot without a showdown by Semibluffing. Also anytime I get the best of a heads up confrontation.

Another thing I really enjoy is when I get myself into trouble by doing something stupid and then make up for it later in the hand by doing something clever.

I get mad when I play a hand badly no matter the outcome.

[shemp]

This is a long and rambling post.

I share a lot of the sentiments here. Another angle:

Something that makes me emotional, is when I get emotional. I'm thinking of negative instances here. I had three ridiculous bad beats. I took them fine. Then I saw a flop with 89s, flopped a nutty open ender, called a raise, and matured to a flush which netted two bets on the river. The guy who'd seen his top pair cracked, who'd administered one of my beats, berated me, about what an idiot I was to call a raise hoping for a backdoor flush -- something he'd do and I wouldn't. I'm furious with him for some unknown reason. I responded, quite snottily/condescendingly. Now I'm furious with myself, because I've engaged this person like this, because I'm keeping some stupid score (he gave me a bad beat and I didn't complain, now I draw out and he whines), etc.

I'm getting at a double aspect here, some of my strongest emotions are people handling driven. Someone makes a comment that ires me, I show, but more importantly the thing already, feel, ire (emotion++), and then realize how horribly I've handled the people aspect of the game(emotion++++). Twice, I've failed, here.

I emphasize the twice, because I think its important. If someone gets your goat, and you do something stupid, what you need to do is immediately forgive yourself and move on -- not take it to another level, of feeling stupid because you did something stupid, but rather saying, okay, that was a mistake, I'm still human and need to work on that, only listen and respond to the point where I may gain, not emotionally invested in variations on switzer measuring.

[Ulysses]

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berated me, about what an idiot I was to call a raise hoping for a backdoor flush

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When this occurs, I usually can't help but respond something like "dude, come on, I flopped a flush!" Then he says something like "you idiot, you rivered a runner-runner flush." And I say "yeah, I know, that's what I'm saying - I flopped a flush so I have an awesome hand." This conversation can take many different directions, but they are always funny to me, which is all I really care about at that point.