AK off in EP vs. The button

Jester999 · #1 12-19-2003, 12:19 PM

.50/$1 NL at PokerStars...I just sat down and am completing my first round at the table so I have a little less than the $100 buy in...I pick up A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in EP and raise it to $4. Only the button calls. He's a player I've never seen before so I've no read on him at all. He's got $41.85 in front of him. The flop comes:

3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The pot is about $9. I lead out for $10. He calls. The turn comes:

10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I mean he could have AJ. But that seems a bit of a reach. I'm guessing most would raise quickly if they had KQ. He could have 33 but that seems like a long shot and also a hand he might have raised me with considering the texture of the board. My guess is the diamond draw is most likely with a possible straight draw also. Maybe a KJ of diamonds.

Where do you go from here? And why?

tewall · #2 12-19-2003, 12:30 PM

Based on the amount he has left, it would only be correct for you to check/fold if he had a better than 2-1 chance of being ahead of you. Since there's no way that's the case here, pot it (setting him all-in) and hope for the best.

mauisupaman · #3 12-19-2003, 10:57 PM

Jester,
I like raising more here PF. If there are other guys with a stack as big as you then you're offering them implied odds. But anyway, flop bet looks good. Turn hits and there is what $28 in the pot and he's got about that left. So, a pot bet by you is offering him 2:1. If he's drawing to [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s it's a bad call by him. And if he's got KJ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I think this is about a break even call.

If he had $100 in front of him, called your raise with 3's, and got you to go all in then I'd be salty that I didn't raise more PF. But he's only got like 30% of your stack size left, so I wouldn't mind puting him all in this time.

JohnG · #4 12-20-2003, 02:59 AM

The preflop raise created your problem.

Jester999 · #5 12-20-2003, 04:00 PM

Thanks for the insightful replies.

I made a bad bet on the turn and got called. The river was an Ace giving any Jack a straight. I checked the river and he bet what he had left (which wasn't much) and I called to look him up. He had QJ off. I made notes and hopefully will see him again.

About my preflop raise....

I have a standard preflop raise for any big hand I like and then if I've been playing with the same people for a while I'll begin to change it up...either the amount or the hands. I'm always looking for the tolerance of what the game will take. By that I mean, if your preflop raise is too big then nobody but giant hands will call you and if it's too small then you'll get too much action. Does that make sense?

How go you guys decide your preflop raise?

In any case, beginning at the turn is where the great players make their money. That's why my first two posts have stopped there.

JohnG · #6 12-20-2003, 07:02 PM

There was nothing wrong with the amount you raised, once you raised. Raising with this hand, in this situation, on this depth of money, is what caused your problem.

Jester999 · #7 12-20-2003, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising with this hand, in this situation, on this depth of money, is what caused your problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm open. Why?

JohnG · #8 12-22-2003, 01:47 PM

The size of future bets/depth of money, the nature of the hand you are building, and your position.

Ever hear the concept that big unsuited cards go down in value at no-limit compared to limit? Well, opening in early position with AKo and AQo is one part of the game that is affected by this.

It's in your power to decide whether to play a big or small pot. Limping allows you to keep it small, and when a big pot is then to be played, you will be the one making that decision on your terms.

Do you really want to create a big pot preflop when out of position and building top pair? Raising can create awkward and tough big pot situations for you, that you would rather not have been in. Did you enjoy the situation you created in your example? Solve the problem at it's source.

Guy McSucker · #9 12-22-2003, 03:59 PM

Hi John,

I would have thought that the very fact that he has a hand that is building top pair should mean he wants to get the pot larger to begin with, so that he can get the money in early while his pair is more likely to be good.

A drawing hand likes to play on all streets. In particular it likes the big money to go in after it hits. A made hand on the flop, like one pair, prefers short money and plays best if it all goes in in two bets.

With deep money, AK can be a nightmare. Here the money is about middling, not super short, not too deep. By raising preflop, he effectively shortens the stacks so that the money can go in more readily. Isn't that a good thing?

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Guy.

WalleyeJason · #10 12-22-2003, 04:39 PM

I would have moved all in after the flop.

There is a flush draw and a straight draw...Mak'em pay for it. I'd rather take the pot down here.

If he is holding onto KQ, then at least you put him to a decision.

You did raise preflop, and he could be thinking you have a set, but I doubt he lays it down.

I think you will have the best hand most of the time.

Atleast you have 7 outs to improve.