What's wrong with the SS forum.

[rkiray]

Warning : I feel like venting. Don't read this if you don't want to hear me vent.

Today someone posted that one of my SS posts was harsh. I don't disagree. I think the problems with SS, why it's much worse than it was just six months ago, is there arn't enough harsh posts. Anyone who thinks my SS or Microlimit posts are harsh should go back and read the archives from 6 to 12 months ago. My posts are nothing. Particularly read the posts by Dynasty, Majorkong, and Clarkmeister. They each ripped me several new aholes, and I'm a better poker player because of it. Rigolloto and Ulysses (both probably spelled wrong) were a little less blunt but they didn't really pull any punches either. And in a more civil way I used to have great poker debates with Homer, Bob T., J.R., 'Lil, JTG, Joe Tall and many others. There arn't many good debates anymore. Maybe my problem is I'm constipated since no one has ripped me a new ahole in months. It seems like we have very few debates anymore. It's like we're in a communist country and we are all just quoting the doctrine. I can't remember the last thread where we had two people took different sides and battled it out. We used to get quite passionate. Don't see that anymore. Now that Bernie is back, ask him how passionate SS used to be able to get about JJ. I think it was much better in those days.

I actually think the problem is the quality of posts and posters has gone way down hill since the poker popularity explosion. Now most of the posts are such simple questions there is not much to argue about. And in the few cases where someone does post an interesting question or hand there are too few really good posters left to take various sides on the issues.

Oh well, seems like 44 is too young to be an angry old man. I'm just starting early.

[GuyOnTilt]

I completely agree with you. I just hope I'm not part of the problem.

I've only been around these parts for a few months now, so I wasn't around for the "glory days" of the SS, but I've noticed a big change in just the last 5 weeks. The quality of posts and discussion has gone way, way down. There's rarely any interesting posted anymore. It's just the same ol' questions, usually with simple answers. I haven't been as involved in the SS as I used to be because of this. Maybe I'll post an interesting hand or two in the next few days...but like you said, the tough ones get overlooked a lot now-a-days because there's so few posters qualified to answer them.

The only good thing I can say is that at least the OT posts have gone down.

GoT

[Bob T.]

I agree with you, but I think it is a cyclical thing. I think vehn posted the same thing sometime in the spring, well before the (in)famous 'JJ in the SB' thread.

I think that there has been an influx of new posters recently, and as you said, there are a lot of those questions that really aren't that difficult, or controversial.

The questions that are difficult, and controversial suffer from a couple of problems. First, they are difficult, and some posters aren't going to go out on a limb in a post, where they might have got it wrong. Second, the difficult ones take longer to think about and answer, and with the volume of threads out there, they drop off the front page much faster. Finally, I think some people are a little gunshy after the JJ in the SB hand. I posted a hand a little while ago, title JJ on the button, and about the second response I got was, "Do you want to start another war!?, Don't you remember what we went through with the JJ on the SB thread?"

I think, as the group of current posters gets more experience, and develops their own personal styles more, which will diverge, their will be a little more substance and debate in the forum again.

But at the same time, the last two nights, I played in online 5-10 games that had players in them, that clearly didn't have any basic poker skills, and to beat them, you just had to shell up, and play mostly weak tight poker until it was your turn to show down the winning hand. So maybe beating small stakes games is for now, a fairly simple and straightforward matter.

[bunky9590]

I posted 2 really deep thinking (really contreversial ways to play) 2 6-12 Borgata hands in SS today and had to bump them up. Did get a few responses, and actually only 1 or 2 posts that sort of disagreed with the play. I posted them to have a debate and ........... not much with it.

[bernie]

"Now that Bernie is back, ask him how passionate SS used to be able to get about JJ. "

especially when it was an apples/oranges argument that degenerated into chest beating. sometimes those threads started out great. good debates and exploration. then went downhill into a bunch of BS and unproductive crap.

new posters = old questions revisited. along with 50-100 more posts to wade through which can take a long while. much longer than before.

which isnt a bad thing. just harder to pick spots to respond.

as someone else said, it goes in cycles

b

[tpir90036]

i actually prefer when the posts are direct and to the point....there is nothing wrong with full-on harshness either. when people pull punches they dance around the issue and might be doing more harm than good. the problem is when people respond with stuff like "read a book (n/t)." this is both harsh and not terribly constructive either. maybe this is just a defense mechanism intended to drive people away who might not be serious. i realize that people are annoyed by the "what are pot odds?" posts...but hopefully the micro-limits forum will help suck up a lot of these easier, mundane questions.

anyway, here is my plea to the remaining old school posters, and the new school of solid posters alike:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

when i saw posters like dynasty start to drop off of 2+2, i became worried that i had missed the boat and would be devoid of the 2+2 experience that many of you have shared. this does not need to be the case, but it is out of my hands, and in the hands of the people reading this. i am indebted to the great posters listed in rkiray's post (and many others that i will not even try to list out) for the words of wisdom they have provided to newer players like myself whom are starving for any and all knowledge we can get. there would be no 2+2 without most of you...and i am certainly not the only person who logs on every day searching out posts specifically by all of you, hoping to take away even a small nugget of information.

please do not let the poker explosion drive you away from 2+2! and if you have been fading away or have taken a break from 2+2, it's time to come back. you know who you are, and you know you are missed. there are lots of smart people here who have years of arguing inside of them. they just need a little bit more time to grow before they are ready to step up to the plate with the living legends of this forum. the people who either are not serious or can not take the heat will fade away in due time.....however, there is a new class of posters who are here to stay, i am one of them and i know i am not alone....and to quote the Dead, we need all of you to "not fade away".... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

there can be a renaissance in the SS and on 2+2...but it starts with all of you.

sincerely,
-tpir

[Nottom]

Well I noticed Ray decided to chime in on a couple threads yesterday. I was glad to see the crazy old man visiting us poor SSers.

[daveymck]

As one of the new posters especially on micro then maybe I have to take some of the blame as do the new people like me, however I think every forum goes through cycles new people come in and cover old ground and off it goes again.

I know that I have posted if not questions that have been addressed before then hands that are not dissimilar to other people at my level of experience have played, however my learning style is through experience so I find it easier to take things in when its my hand than reading through the archive (which I have done to a point) where its not related to me.

Now I have been round a bit I wouldnt mind if someone ripped me a new arsehole as its being put, when putting in yet another hand where I have been completly stupid and not listened to advice previously given but it has to be balanced with if someone is new to the forum they may take it as being offensive until they settle in. Having said that its an online world so people should not get so upset.

I have been here just over a month and have learned a lot and just hope that the old hands can have the patience to deal with us newbies and in months to come I will be joining in with giving the advice and maybe courting controversy.

[ElSapo]

I think to some extent you may be right, but I hope you're not saying SS is some sort of black hole of a forum. And frankly, I think there's a fine line between too harsh and blunt.

There have been some good debates of late, I think, but you have to look for them. There was a Clarkmeister 4/8 hand last week I thought spurred some interesting discussion. It still happens, but it is true that much of the posts are simple hands that more or less have been covered before...

The micro-forum lifted some of the volume, but you still have people rediscovering the wheel every day.

[rkiray]

Yeah,

I remember that thread. I'm the one with the 2nd response. I thought it was a hypothetical hand, when I realized it was a real hand I apoligized.

The last couple of hands I posted that I thought were really interesting got very little response (one of them didn't get any). So lately I haven't been posting as many hands, and the ones I have posted have been simpler. Seems to be working ok, but I wish the interesting ones got more responses.