KK hand

Vehn · #1 12-06-2003, 10:30 PM

OK $30/$60. Good aggressive player limps UTG. OK EP raises, OK LP coldcalls, I have red kings on the button and 3 bet. Loose big blind coldcalls. UTG now 4-bets, EP folds, LP calls 2 cold, I cap it and everyone calls.

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. EP checks, UTG bets, LP folds, I raise, the BB coldcalls and UTG calls.

Turn is the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Its checked to me and I check.

River is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB bets out and UTG raises. What do you? How about the turn check?

Vehn · #2 12-06-2003, 11:21 PM

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. EP checks, UTG bets, LP folds, I raise, the BB coldcalls and UTG calls.

Should be "BB checks, UTG bets, LP folds, I raise, BB coldcalls and UTG calls".

vkotlyar · #3 12-06-2003, 11:50 PM

It looks like utg has AA. Its a lot harder to figure out BBs hand. Will he call 2 bets cold on the flop w a 5? The pot is huge, so he would be correct to do so. i think he would 3-bet with a queen on the flop. I think his likely hand is 66-JJ, and he is putting both you and UTG on AK, especially since u checked the turn. I have the turn check becuase now you have invited both of them to try to steal the pot away from you on the river. Bet the turn, and check behind on the river. I dont think that you can win the pot, unless UTG 4-bet w AQs. He may have the other kings, and is now putting you on aces. i would take a good look at the BB. How does he feel about the raise? Is he going to reraise? If he looks dejected, and therefore doesnt have a 5, then call.
vitaly

MHoydilla · #4 12-07-2003, 12:10 AM

Why would you check the turn here? It screams weak tight to me.

tpir90036 · #5 12-07-2003, 12:45 AM

those crazy paired boards...everytime i have a high pocket pair the flop ends up like this with super loose blind man...i digress:

call me crazy but it looks like the BB was going for a check raise on the turn and missed. it also seems like UTG has AA and just wants to get to a showdown before someone makes trips or fills up....which it seems like BB has probably done already.

i suppose you could argue that the pot is so monstrous that you have to go to the showdown...but i don't see how your hand could possibly be good anymore. hope it went well for you...

-tpir

Jeffage · #6 12-07-2003, 01:41 AM

It screams intelligent to me. UTG may likely have AA...by checking the turn you avoid being checkraised in a situation where free cards aren't likely to hurt if you're ahead. If your read on UTG is this, checking makes a lot of sense....in general, a bet will go in on the river whether u put it in or he does.

Jeff

Vehn · #7 12-07-2003, 03:12 AM

I was actually under the gun in this hand. On the river I immediatly raised the big blind's bet, and the button thought for some time and folded. The big blind called, and my kings up were good.

I thought about this hand for a while and I can't really argue that much with the button's play, but I think betting the turn is for the best, regardless. I probably would not have gone for a checkraise here on the turn against this opponent anyways with AA or QQ here, most likely just get the money in the flop. Obviously I had to give him credit for aces or kings in the actual hand here and was going to just call down, but figured when the turn was checked I had to have the best hand. Dunno.

elysium · #8 12-07-2003, 04:58 AM

hi vehn
good post as usual. you think the utg has a set of queens here and played the turn accordingly, but look what happened. out of the blue, it's no longer the utg that is giving you trouble but rather the BB.

not betting because of your read opened the door for the BB to get in there and ruin everything. if this hand were heads up and not a 3 way, your check-down works. it doesn't work in a 3 way though, and now you see why. never ever check-down a strong holding in a 3 way vehn. i think that this hand represents the best example of the difference between a 3 way and a heads up i have ever seen, and why the number of opponents is a strong consideration when selecting a particular srtategy to deploy rather than another.

Depraved · #9 12-07-2003, 05:59 AM

Guess the button didn't have AA/KK. Checking the turn would usually eliminate AQ as well.

What could the big blind have? If I'm on the button with AK, I have to put him on something that's gonna call - probably a Queen, and so checking with AK sounds good. I don't know if betting JJ or lower on the turn is effective here or not. Unless it was for show, it sounds like he did have trouble laying down a pair - if he didn't have AQ, then my guess is JJ or TT... I wouldn't give him as much credit next time.

glen · #10 12-07-2003, 06:07 AM

I think we can assume he also had KK and folded to the river raise, since he wrote the post from the perspective of having KK, probably told vehn after he saw his hand. . .