Couple High Stakes PLO hands...

[manku]

I post here instead of Other Poker, as these hands would be fairly straight forward in limit.

Home game, stacks 1500-3500. Games are most split (hilo), fairly loose, passive game. However, a gambler has decided to sit in and changed complexion of game. Much bigger, all of a sudden (strange how that can happen). We play either spread limit (dealers choice, anywhere from 25/50 to 100/200/300) and occasionaly PL.

Anyway, game has been fairly boring so far for me.

First hand: 5 Card (vs. 4 Card) Omaha 8ob. I can't recall exact hand, but I'm in for $25 preflop in LP. Flop comes A-4-5, two tone. I have 2-3 (for wheel and nuts hilo) with ZERO redraws. People in this game are saavy enough to know when lows are going to get quartered or worse, so I'm very careful here. Theres an early position bet of $50, then another raise of $50. I consider raising pot (which I should have) but just call. Two other callers. At this point I think there's a good chance I'm already getting quartered, one reason I didn't raise.

Turn is an awful 2, also put three diamonds on board. Checked to previous raiser, who bets $300.

I mull, figure I'm going to get quartered at best and fold. One player calls.

River is a rag. Neither player had a wheel. DuH!

Second Hand: Similar to 5 card Omaha 8ob, except you can also play your hand. This makes the game EVIL. (Later that evening I was dealt 4Kings, to take a huge pot from someone who had top full house/board nutz).

However, I'm dealt A369K, all hearts. Tres Bien!

I'm UTG and raise to $25, get 5 callers:

Flop: K-8-5, two tone. Good flop. I bet $100. Three callers.

Turn: 3. Again, I bet $200 (FYI, betting here was 100/200/Pot). Again, three callers.

River: Q, of spades, putting K-Q-5 of spades out there. In other words, if someone has Ace flush, I lose.

In disgust, I check. Checked around to good player, who bets $500. He's either got the A2 or the nut flush (or better in hand, but unlikely). Also to my right is the slowplaying fiend, and I can't put a read on him. I fold, and it turns out all he had was A2. Can't recall who won high.

I realize I should have bet at least $100+ on river. If nothing else, it most likely would have prevented a naked low from raising like this.

Manku

[crockpot]

an argument can be made for flat calling the flop with the first hand, but i prefer raising. fish love flush draws for half the pot, and if someone is sitting on that hand, you want to charge him as much as possible. same goes for a 36xx or 67xx. besides, all of thes hands have plenty of outs to beat you, so why not force them out of the pot?

as for your second hand, it looks like you played it right, even though i have no experience in a game like this.

[Graham]

Hand 1: Seems ok to me...from what I can figure of this game.

Hand 2: I make it a 1350 pot with 500 bet, you're hoping to get half. 500 to possibly win 675. Dunno, with 3 opps I think I'da been tempted to fold as well once I was there. 5 cards in 5 hands seeing the flop greatly increases the chances of the big flush being out there against you.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
fish love flush draws for half the pot,

[/ QUOTE ]

could you clarify? I know next to nothing about PLO, but if you're not going to play a nut flush draw for half the pot, when are you going to play it? I am seriously curious.

--turnipmonster

[Paul2432]

I'll try and answer this. I think by "half the pot" he is referring to hi/lo split when you only have a chance to win half the pot. A quick example will show the folly of this. Suppose you have a nut flush draw for high and nothing else. Your opponent has a wheel and bets the pot of $10. You are risking $10 to win $5 and you have zero implied odds. Clearly this is a terrible call but players do it all the time.

I'm guessing you thought he meant calling a bet of half the size of the pot to win the entire pot if your flush hits. Obviously this is a much different situation.

Paul

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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fish love flush draws for half the pot,


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could you clarify? I know next to nothing about PLO, but if you're not going to play a nut flush draw for half the pot, when are you going to play it? I am seriously curious.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

What is so profitable about split pot games, and therefore exponentially so in Big Bet split pot games is that when the low is locked up it is almost always unprofitable to draw for the high half of the pot. And furthermore it is frequently correct to fold the NUT high hand if the low is made and it is susceptible to redraws.

An example:

Suppose we are playing PLO HiLo. You are dealt QQKKds with 10,000$ in front of you, I am dealt A239 with no flush draws with $10,000 as well. Blinds are $1 and $2.

We both see the flop of K45 rainbow. I check and you (correctly) bet the pot ($4), I (correctly) call. The turn is an offsuit 8. If I bet the pot, you should fold.

Here's why. You will now be required to call $12 to win back the $6 in the pot (minus any rake). You have no chance to win the low. Any A,2,3 or 6 wins me the whole pot. I have a 12 out freeroll to take the pot away from you. And all you gain from calling the bet was your original $6.

The lack of understanding of this concept is why this game is so profitable.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing you thought he meant calling a bet of half the size of the pot to win the entire pot if your flush hits. Obviously this is a much different situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that's what I thought he meant, sorry. thanks for clearing things up!

[turnipmonster]

excellent explanation! to clarify, I was thinking PLO hi-only, and he had to call a half pot sized bet. sorry for the confusion