Doubtful turn play, 2 hands

[Saborion]

1/2. Loose passive. 10-handed. Both hands are from the same table.

Hand 1:
I`m dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in EP2.
EP1 limp, I raise, MP2 cold-call, button cold-call, SB call, BB call, EP1 call.
6 to the flop.

[8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 6 BB.
Checked to me, I bet, MP2 call, button raise, BB cold-call, EP1 cold call, I 3-bet, button call, BB call, EP1 call.
5 to the turn.

T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 12 BB.
Checked to me, I bet and they all call.
5 to the river.

K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 16 BB.
BB bet, EP1 call, I fold, button raise, BB fold, EP1 call.

An easy fold. What I wonder about it, should I bet this turn? This seems to be one of those hands that I`m not sure if I`m ahead or not, and I do have outs. Checking is in order? I still have player left to act behind me.

Result: The button had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and split the pot with EP1 that had 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
--------------------------------------------

Hand 2:
I`m dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB.
EP1 limp, EP3 limp, MP2 limp, SB complete, I check.
5 to the flop.

[9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 2.5 BB.
SB check, I bet, MP2 call, SB call.
3 to the turn.

K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 4 BB.
SB check, I bet and they both fold.

Betting out on the flop is the correct play right? What about the turn? If any of the others has Ax we split. If any of them have a 9 I`m likely to get raised. Is this a check-call situation?

[rkiray]

Hand 1 : I would have bet the turn (EP1 played terrible, BTW).

Hand 2 : Definitely bet flop, and since no one raised, bet turn.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Hand 1: I don't see even considering checking the turn. Only one hand (AK) beats you here. You say you don't know if you're ahead or not, but how will you find out if you don't bet? Your 3 bet on the flop didn't get capped. Do you really think you can put somebody on AK here if you check and they bet? If your turn bet gets raised, then you can maybe start thinking about AK (but I'd 3 bet again easily).

The only thing you accomplish by checking is giving someone a chance to bluff you out, or potentially giving flush draws and lone aces a free card (a disaster!). You did the right thing and at least made those aces pay for the king.

[Saborion]

Seems like you did a mistake a la Saborion and not reading the post properly. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

At the flop I`m beaten by 9T. At the turn I`m beaten by AK or any 9. So I could be behind here. I`m not sure if I am behind or not, and I have outs, so that`s why I was wondering if betting really is the best option against 3 players in this spot.

[Sleepy Weasel]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like you did a mistake a la Saborion and not reading the post properly. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops! That's what I get for trying to give advice instead of just asking for it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (also for reading too quickly).

I still think most of my post stands though. I would expect a flopped straight to cap (if not, they're saving you money, so be it). I also still think betting for information on the turn is valid. You'd have to think a 9 would raise (then you can get out), and you still don't want to give anyone free cards.

[Mike Gallo]

Saborian,

I would always bet the turn in that spot. You wont get a check raise off and you do not want to give a free card.

I see nothing wrong with hand one, other than you did not fill up.

Hand two you played well also. You could have gone for a check raise, however I like the bet.


Is this a check-call situation?

No, you will never become a winning player if you choose check calling as your default play. Bet,bet bet.