Playing in a loose game with a maniac...

[King_J]

5-10 online. A maniac is in the game, seems to be capping every hand. The other players seems like they are desperate to come in to pots with him so its a great game.

UTG calls, next player folds, maniac raises. Next player cold-calls. Folded to me in the cutoff+1 with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I cold-call too... expecting that 5-7 players sees the flop for 2 bets. Even though there is a risk that it will be capped (it will if someone re-raises)

Is my call okey or is it too loose?

The hand worked out Great, btw. Six players saw the flop for two bets. The flop came:
5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
An ok flop, giving me middle pair with a gutshot. They all checked to me, strange. I bet ... hoping to get a few players out. Unfortunately, I was check-reraised when it came back to me and I called two bets cold. (The maniac were the check-reraiser)
four players to the turn for three bets each.

The turn were the perfect card for me: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Giving me the straight with the straightflush draw.

UTG checks, maniac bets, next player called. I raised. I got a cold-caller before the maniac made it three bets. The original caller called once again before I capped it.
Four saw the river for four bets each.

Rivercard was the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] giving me the straight flush.

UTG checked, maniac bet, next player folded and I raised. UTG folded but maniac re-raised and I of course capped it. He called.

Hand history showed that he had K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I cant complain regarding the action he gave me on the turn and river.

I apologize that the hand is a little bit tough to understand and I know that it is impossible to follow the action exactly because I am not giving you all the positions and the correct action. My biggets concern on this pot is the preflop play and that is the reason why I dont give you all the information postflop. Even though I am glad to take any comments.

[Schneids]

If you aren't concerned at all about variance and the hand will wind up with at least five other players, I think the play is fine since 54c is already a +EV hand with 5+ players, and the maniac pushes your implied odds through the roof when you do make a hand. However, I'd be more apt to make a play like this only from the button and if I can see there already are 5+ people in the hand. Again though, I think this is largely dependent on how much/little you value the variance that will inevitably come from these small edges. Additionally, this also depends on good post-flop play (ie knowing when you have the odds to chase, and being able to laydown)

My two cents.

[King_J]

Wasn´t my plan to post this hand in the mid-, high stakes. I am sorry for that.

[Schneids]

A few more things I forgot to mention in my first post, to consider before necessarily making this call:
1. How often has any early position player limp re-raised PF against the maniac? If it's been happening on multiple occasions, I'd personally start leaning towards mucking, just because I don't like investing 4SB's PF with this hand just because I draw the line at some point with my high variance plays (high variance in that the more often you make calls like this, the more often you'll quickly get up or down a full buy-in).
2. Lets say the flop is something like T53. And it's checked to the maniac who bets. It's folded to you (or there's one caller). If you raise, will the other players recognize you're raising to try to isolate against the maniac? If they won't recognize this fact, then you should be more apt to make this call PF.
3. Either way, when played correctly, I think your PF call is fine -- since that is the question you asked.

[Tommy Angelo]

"The other players seems like they are desperate to come in to pots with him"

Perhaps a mirror on your desk would aid your perspective.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I apologize that the hand is a little bit tough to understand and I know that it is impossible to follow the action exactly because I am not giving you all the positions and the correct action. My biggets concern on this pot is the preflop play and that is the reason why I dont give you all the information postflop. Even though I am glad to take any comments.


[/ QUOTE ]
if u only care about pre-flop play, then why bother posting the whole hand? there is really nothing people need to comment on the rest of the hand as it's sort of automatic.

anyway. back to pre-flop call. there was one limper, one maniac raiser, and one cold caller, and since the game is loose, the SB and BB most likely will come in, so against the common wisdom, i would call as well. however in a normal or typical game, i'd fold it almost every times.

btw, nice pot! but who cares? that has nothing to do with the preflop decision.

Kenny

[King_J]

I wasnt sure about the call. That is why I posted it here. Thanks for the nice comment.

[vkotlyar]

I think this is an easy call if the other players dont play very well. You are gonna get 5 way action at least (surely the BB is coming). Granted, this play wont win you a whole bunch of money....it might be only marginally +EV, but you will get labeled as a loosey by the other platers. "Look at him call a raise w 5 high and bet the flop with a gutshot". You will get more action on your better hands. Whenver a play is close to 0 EV, where it really doesnt matter if you play or not, i tend to play every time just to reinforce my "loose" image. I would much rather have 22 in your spot becuase it involves minimum investment and maximum reward. You dont have to chase to the river to see if you are ahead. The maniac will put lost of bets into the pot on the flop, and you will have great possition to extract extra bets if the flop comes as you like it. Otherwise, you are out. I know plenty of people who would prefer a connector in that spot. Any1 have an opinion?
vitaly

[rivaridge]

Im folding this preflop.
If I dont fold preflop I would probably call on the flop with the gutshot and chance for another five.
The decision to fold preflop may be close to boderline ev wise but I just like to avoid the unnecessary swings especially against the maniac.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Whenver a play is close to 0 EV, where it really doesnt matter if you play or not, i tend to play every time just to reinforce my "loose" image.

[/ QUOTE ]
Vitaly,

nicely put. 0 EV on USD, but +EV on image! (+EV on tilt reduction! for me)

oh btw, i am on another good streak, 11 wins in live games. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]