Reverse Implied Pot Odds

[chucklhead]

Howdy,
In TOP, Sklansky gives the following example of reverse implied pot odds.

You hold:
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop comes:
7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He suggests throwing this hand away. Are you giving too much up if you always throw this hand away? A similar hand came up recently--I was in a 3 way pot (after my pre-flop raise). A loose player bet into me from the small blind and the 3rd in the pot (UTG position) called. The bluffer had been playing any two suited and any two straight, one gappers, and any A, K and occasionally a Q. I ended up throwing this hand away and it would have won in the end.

Thanks,
Chucklehead

[rayrns]

Sklansky says it would OFTEN be correct to throw the A-A away. But then I believe the example he was using was heads up.

Question about the bluffer. If a non-flush/str8 card came on the turn, would he back off or continue with his bluff?

Question about UTG. What type of hand did you think he was playing?

Your answers to the above might be a clue as how to play it.

If the bluffer would bet the flop and check the turn (if no flush or str8 card hit) and UTG was passive, then I may have called the flop.
If the bluffer would lay down a missed hand. Then maybe a raise on the flop would be ok. If you are re-raised-fold. If you are just called then continue normal play.

You indicated what hands the bluffer would play. Now how you want to play against him seems to be in "how" would he play those hands.

[chucklhead]

Both players had top pair with a heart kicker. UTG had the red ace.

After thinking about this hand, I think I should have raised on the flop. I have position. If I get reraised I have to fold. If a scary card comes, I might have to fold to a bet and a call in front of me (don't want to pay off two big bets to get to the showdown). If no bet, I check and call one bet on the river. If there is no scare card, and I am bet into, and I don't know for sure what hands I'm facing for some reason, I probably should fold but am not certain. If I make it to the river I probably should call one bet, but fold to any real raises.

If I am out of position a fold is probably correct.

Anything you would add?

Thanks,
Chucklehead

[Louie Landale]

His REAL point is that with black AA against a one-suited red 3-straight, you almost CERTAINLY wish you were all-in right now and can show down your hand for no more betting. If so, you have "reverse implied odds" since you expect to lose more money on future streets than you will gain, overall.

In this example, most reasonable players will ONLY play a big heart, or a hand better than AA: KT should give STRONG consideration to folding. Thus, AA will find itself, often, in a situation where he either wins now or is an underdog.

- Louie