ethics of unmucking

[Dylan Wade]

I was just curious the rules for asking the dealer to expose a hand that a player mucked at the showdown. I realise this probably varies from casino to casino, but I am actually more interested in the unwritten ethical rules that apply.

Some old lady kept asking the dealer to reveal the hands of players who mucked their hands at the showdown. I just thought it was very bad manner, but I'm still pretty new. Am I right to think this is BS even if the house allows it? Don't you showdown in-order, or are you supposed to showdown all at the same time?

BTW.. I understand asking to see the hand of the player first to act if he hesitated to showdown.

[baggins]

a muck is a muck. the only legitimate reason to ask to see the hand after it has been mucked is when you suspect collusion. otherwise, it's a bogus angle. and it's bad for the game of poker. i'd complain if it gets out of hand...

[Aces McGee]

It's my understanding that once a player calls the final river bet, their mucked hand may be shown if a player requests it. This is why most online poker hand histories have the pocket cards of all players who called to the showdown.

I don't see this as bogus at all. You paid for the information at showdown, so you have every right to it.

Aces McGee

[slavic]

There's not a lot you can do. Once you call or are called on the river the hand has to be shown if requested. If the other player requests it I think he's foolish. Most of the time though it's someone not in the hand who folded early on. I don't like it but what can you do? I tend to slide my cards into the muck but they can still be found.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see this as bogus at all. You paid for the information at showdown, so you have every right to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what you mean by this. If someone bets the river and I call and their hand is good AND they want to see my hand, that is total B.S. Poor ettiquette and adding insult to injury.

[baggins]

that may be your understanding. and technically, you are correct, that is the way the rule has been abused into practice.

however, the intention of the IWTSTH rule is to avoid collusion. you paid to see the winning hand, not all the hands. if somebody mucks, then it is poor etiquette to ask to see their hand for information.

[Martin Aigner]

Tyler,

I agree that it´s poor etiquette.

I´d sure would tell the person, who requests the showing of the hands that it´s very impolite to do so. If, like in the original post stated, it´s an old lady, who makes the request every other hand, I might add some example like: "Would you think it´s impolite of me if I belched at the table?" I guess she would agree that she wouldn´t like it, so I would tell her that requesting the showing of the hands would be in poker about as impolite as belching. I´m positive that she wouldn´t do it anymore.

If the person continues to make the request I´d probably ask to see her/his hands everytime he/she is involved at the showdown.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[Mangatang]

Here's an interesting idea, albeit a risky one. Next time you have a winning hand, heads-up against this old lady, after she shows down, look at her and muck your cards (make sure they don't actually go in the muck though).

Then when she asks to see the cards, the dealer will turn them up and looky here, you take the pot from her. That should teach her.

Although, it would really hurt if she didn't ask to see the cards that particular time and you lose what was your pot.

[slavic]

Yea I've thought about how you would pull this off several times. To me it's just too risky. Even if it comes off perfect, your still at the mercy of the floor making a choice on who gets your pot. If you tried to explain it to the floor they'd likely call you to the carpet for taking a shot at the game. Just not good Karma.

[Mangatang]