Thanks, Dynasty - but was this smart or silly?

Ulysses · #1 10-24-2003, 04:11 PM

Super-loose-aggressive 6-handed 15-30 game. The button and SB have raised every single hand they've played and attack ferociously at any sign of weakness.

Anyway, in large part due to Dynasty's influence, I've been open-limping UTG/early AA. But when anyone limps before me I've been raising. Here I took a little different approach.

I'm 2nd to act. UTG limps. I call w/ AA. CO calls. Button now raises. Blinds and UTG call. I 3-bet. CO folds, Button caps it and everyone calls. 5-way capped pre-flop.

Flop 5c6cKh . Bet, call, raise (me), Button & SB fold, call, call.
Turn 7d. Check, check, bet, call, call.
River 9d. Check, check, bet, call, fold.

Ac9c called me on the end.

Anyway, I don't think the hand is too interesting, but what do you think of my decision to limp here given the circumstances described? It worked out well this time, but I'm wondering whether that was a good idea preflop of if I was being too tricky for my own good.

Anyone?

skp · #2 10-24-2003, 04:22 PM

In a 6 handed game with AA, you do what it takes to get in as much money in the pot as possible preflop. It matters not how many opponents you have...well, the more the merrier so long as it is for multiple bets. With that in mind, whether you should only limpcall depends on what you think will happen behind you if you call vs. if you raise.

Also, balance considerations take on greater importance in these games. Will you limp reraise with hands other than AA/KK? In fact, will you limp simpliciter with hands other than AA/KK?

mikelow · #3 10-24-2003, 04:25 PM

At least it keeps you unpredictable. If you always three-bet preflop in this spot, and the flop that came, you're telegraphing aces. At least you got action from a semi-dominated hand.

andyfox · #4 10-24-2003, 04:30 PM

I think it's fine and even if it isn't, so what? This pre-flop situation (you with pocket aces UTG+1 and UTG limps in a game where the button is virtually guaranteed to raise) will occur so infrequently, it's not worth worrying about. Doesn't look like anything you do is going to appreciably effect anyone else's actions in this type of game.

Diplomat · #5 10-24-2003, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In a 6 handed game with AA, you do what it takes to get in as much money in the pot as possible preflop. It matters not how many opponents you have...well, the more the merrier so long as it is for multiple bets. With that in mind, whether you should only limpcall depends on what you think will happen behind you if you call vs. if you raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. In this case, if you are almost sure that at least one of the whackos to your rear will raise, I really like the play. Most other times I will raise, because I find myself frequently raising in these games anyway.

-Diplomat

M2d · #6 10-24-2003, 07:28 PM

In the AJ's game, I've been limping a lot more in shorthanded games lately. I think it allows me to play more hands cheaply, since people can't autoraise my limps. They can't even automatically discount a big hand when I don't three bet behind them, since I also flat call with AA, KK sometimes here. This strategy won't work at the Oaks game, but the AJ's game, where some people go on auto raise mode, is perfect for it, I think.

Dynasty · #7 10-24-2003, 07:58 PM

It's definitely worth going for a limp-reraise here. With two limpers ahead of me, I would probably raise.

Against these opponents, I think I would also be limp-reraising with KK-JJ and AKso/AQs.

I may have just called on the flop hoping the Button senses weakness and raises so I can 3-bet him again. That's a bit riskier.

Ulysses · #8 10-24-2003, 10:11 PM

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This strategy won't work at the Oaks game, but the AJ's game, where some people go on auto raise mode, is perfect for it, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have lots and lots and lots of shorthanded hours in that game (for a long stretch last year I and two or three others were the core group that would keep games running through the night). I completely agree with that strategy in that game and have used it very successfully for a long time. That game when shorthanded may just be the perfect poker game. I've been really busy lately and haven't been able to get to the room much. I especially miss that late-late-late-night game.

Ulysses · #9 10-24-2003, 10:18 PM

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Against these opponents, I think I would also be limp-reraising with KK-JJ and AKso/AQs.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll experiment with that and see how it goes.

[ QUOTE ]
I may have just called on the flop hoping the Button senses weakness and raises so I can 3-bet him again. That's a bit riskier.

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys were overaggressive, but not total idiots. If they had anything (even a medium pair) they were likely to 3-bet the flop, but I doubt they would just auto-raise this flop after I limp-reraised pre-flop. I did think about this though. The pot was big enough that I wanted to increase my chances of taking it down, which I may well have succeeded at, since there's a good chance they folded some garbage like Q8s.

Ulysses · #10 10-24-2003, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With that in mind, whether you should only limpcall depends on what you think will happen behind you if you call vs. if you raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points in your post. FWIW, if I raised, I expected CO to probably fold and button to 3-bet with a wide range of holdings. Facing a 3-bet, SB & BB were quite likely to fold. So, I thought it would likely end up 3-way capped. Limp re-raising, I thought it was either going to be 5 or 6-ways for either 3 or 4 bets.

So, here's a question. Would you rather have AA w/ 4-5 opponents pre-flop and 18SB on avg. in the pot pre-flop or w/ 2 opponents and 12SB pre-flop?