Is this obvious to you

[zcahv82]

I thought I would post this hand as I thought it was quite interesting, and to see whether I played it correctly or not.

25NL party poker. I don't know anyone on the table
1st hand In.
I post the BB and get J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG limps in, all fold to the button who raises to 2.25. SB calls, I call ( mistake?) and UTG calls. Surprising they all have me covered, with the Button having over $100.

So the flop brings Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
I quite like the flop. SB checks, I check thinking the btutton will bet out and to get a bettor understanding of the table. UTG checks and Button bets the Pot $8.55. I put him on AK or AA. Didn't think he had KK or QQ, SB calls, I decide to raise all in($22.75) my open ended draw.( mistake two?)
Both Button and SB call. Turn brings a wonderful 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], completing my striaght. Both SB and Button check. River is a K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. But they both check through, and I win the big pot. Button had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and SB had Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Firstly did I play this corretly?

Recently, everytime I go all in, I get the hnad history and put it through two dimes, to see how I was doing at every point. So when I did this to the following hand, I was very surprised to see the results. Without cheating, at the Flop,
which hand would you prefer. Obviously you would choose the hand with the greatest EV. But I was quite surprised to find out the results. The results where not obvious to me.
Results in next post.

[zcahv82]

Putting through twodimes the EV results were as follows

pokenum -h th jh - as qs - qc 6c -- qd kc 2c
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing Kc 2c Qd
cards EV
Jh Th 0.171
As Qs 0.368
Qc 6c 0.462

I couldn't believe the results. I would have thought AQ to be a big favourite, then Q6s but only a little favourite to JT from the flop. Obviosly got a lot to learn.

Thanks in advance

[PSS]

Obviously, you have 5 outs (-redraws, of which there are still 9), and Q6s has 11 outs of which 9 are almost unbeatable. The AQ has 16 cards it doesn't want to see, 14 of which it has very little or no re-draw to, so the results make sence with 2 cards to come.

In retrospect (and knowing the cards) it's easy to critisise your play and say the all-in was poor (but we've all made this play before, or at least I have). What did you think you were up against - if it's the flush draw then you know that you only have 6 outs for the all in (unless you think you can get a weak flush draw to fold, which at that size game I doubt.) If not it's still marginal as you have to hit an 8 outer

Phil

[Jon Matthews]

I would have folded that preflop, mainly because of position.

He should have raised more preflop, that was the reason he lost $25 there.

Since you're in and SB has called the pot bet you're getting 3:1 so you may as well call. All in is fine but I prefer calling as this is a hand which you can make and still get paid off with, unlike a flush.


And for the EV, on the flop a pair and flush draw would be doing the best I would have thought, followed by AQ, followed by the open ender?

Jon

[nicky g]

A pair and a flush draw is a strong hand, especially heads up. Second pair and flush draw is a slight favourite over top pair; if the money's not too deep, it's a great NL hand to push in with heads-up, as you not only are you (very slight - but still) favourite but you'll often take down the pot there and then.

[Acesover8s]

The all in play is quite bad in this game. The only time I will use the all in with a draw is when:

A) I'm drunk (more often than I wish)
B) A huge hand like straight flush draw or flush draw with overcards that are bound to be good (almost never happens)
C) Against players who are capable of laying down 1 pair.

This game or hand does not qualify for the latter two, although I probably was drunk while you played it. I would not like that flop very much and would be hesitant to call much of a flop bet. How much will you like your hand when the Ace of clubs hits?

[nicky g]

") I'm drunk (more often than I wish)
B) A huge hand like straight flush draw or flush draw with overcards that are bound to be good (almost never happens)
C) Against players who are capable of laying down 1 pair.

This game or hand does not qualify for the latter two, although I probably was drunk while you played it."

Lol. I was probably drunk too, so it's not like he didn't have a good excuse.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
This game or hand does not qualify for the latter two, although I probably was drunk while you played it."

Lol. I was probably drunk too, so it's not like he didn't have a good excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]


The really unfortunate thing is that with the time lag between us, you were either up too late, or I start drinking way too early.

[zcahv82]

Thanks for all your replys, you guys know your stuff.

I thought the button was on AK, thinking be would have raised more preflop if he had a Big PP( altough being the first hand, didn't know how he played at all [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img])
When the button bet the pot, and the SB called, all I thought was I had the 3:1 odds, and would have been a profit in the long run(obviosly not,from looking at the EV). I didn't even think twice or even care about what the SB had, probably where I am going wrong.
I knew raising all in wouldn't make anyone of them fold, as was effectively raising it by the pot($22 raise on a $25 pot). The reason I went all in was I hate calling such a large raise on the flop, only to fold on the turn, so I thought it was a Raise all-in/fold situation. I guess the All in would have been bettor if my cards were over cards on a straight draw. Thanks again.

[tewall]

So what's the concensus? He should call the flop and fold the turn? Does it make any difference if the flop is a rainbow instead of 2 suited?