To go pro or not, and where?

[2ndGoat]

I really couldn't figure what category to post this in, moderators feel free to move it! Post is a bit long, but I'd really apreciate honest advice from anyone willing to read through it...

A few weeks ago I turned 21, and to celebrate, my parents took me to Altantic City (my first *legal* session there) where I met a couple friends from New Jersey, and promptly ditched them all to play some 10/20 hold'em.

Up and down (and way up in the end), but the moral of the story is, I had a hell of a lot better time playing in the Borgota (those waitresses! damn!) than I do in a cube at my current job.

Now, I've just recently graduated college with a genuine degree (B.S. computer science), and I have what is by all standards a pretty good IT job. But 2 months in, I'm already feeling pretty listless at the thought of staying in corporate america for another 2/10/40 years.

On the other hand, I propped online this summer quite successfully, but after playing 25 hours a week for 4 months, I got tired of that too... a bad run lasted long enough to sap my will to play, and it coincided with the start of the 40 hr/wk job.

So it would appear *neither* occupation is really that great a fit for me, but playing live, I felt much more attentive and interested in the game 6 hours into a session than I ever did 90 minutes into an online session. So perhaps I'd enjoy that for longer than the online stint. On the other hand, the end of that last session was an absurdly good run (65 big bets in 5 hours), somewhat coloring my experiences, but I've had other live sessions with different results but a similar mental state.

Now my first question to all of you: In this day and age, where would you go pro? I've only ever been to Atlantic City, and would be sort of biased to set up shop there since I've got all my friends and family on the east coast, but I might also entertain a fresh start elsewhere...broke up with a girlfriend of 5 years a month or two ago, and a lot of my friends have turned into jerks. So vegas, california, or just traveling cross the country like a nomad from oval table to oval table are thoughts too.

Second... what regrets do you pros out there have about the time you've spent in poker? Has it been a lonely profession or have you made good friends as a result? Did you find yourself able to tackle problems like saving for retirement, health care, withholding some taxes from yourself, and getting financing for a house or car? If I did go pro, it would probably only be for a couple years, mitigating a lot of these types of issues, but who knows.

A month ago I started joking to myself about going pro, 2 weeks ago I started entertaining it, and now I'm staring to take the idea just a little bit seriously. Either way I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it for another 4-5 months, to give my IT job enough of a chance and get a very safe bankroll saved up to start out with, but I'd sure appreciate some advice right now.

Sincerely,
2ndGoat

[TheDuck]

<font color="blue">
I may be out of line here, or maybe someone already said this but it sounds like there are a lot of life changing events occuring in your life right now, and picking up your things and moving to become a professional poker player may be a little... too much too fast.

I don't mean to imply your not good enough to do so, its just that because of all those things, you might just need a little time to think. Everyone hates thier jobs (almost everyone) and I'm in the same spot as you, as I wish I could drop out of college (programming - what is it with us and poker?) and go pro but I know that I'm not ready mentally, physically, financially, etc.

Take time to think things through. Don't hop on the first plane to Vegas, if you do I have a feeling you'll be sorely disappointed. Playing in an actual card room once isn't nearly enough experience, imo.

But if you are serious keep studying, practicing (online or IRL) and make sure its what you want to do. Playing online isn't for everyone, you don't have the poker environment. After all your still in your house and the names on the screen aren't really people [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Many people do better at the real tables than online because they can get a better feeling for the game when they are in the actual environment. And your cat isn't jumping on your lap, with the TV blaring when your trying to time your bluffing just right, so PokerStud2003 will fold.

Anyway, I didn't want to discourage you, just make sure you are ready for the change completely. Do you want to move away from home? Are you ok with not having a set steady income? Can you quit the game when your not playing your best, or when you need rest? I'm sure you know all this but I just felt like bringing it up.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

</font>

[bugstud]

This as good a place as any. My personal suggestion is to work for a few months and then vacation/weekend trip it somewhere, whether it be Minnesota, Arizona, Vegas, AC, Foxwoods...somewhere. Go spend a vacation like you would as a pro, and see how it is. Talk to the people on here (email, PM, whatever) that have tried it. I'd suggest going to midstakes given the level you played at AC and see what insight you can glean from them. Whatever you do, good luck...I hope you don't need it.

[slavic]

(programming - what is it with us and poker?)

Hmm - Set Theory, Providing Solutions with Imperfect Information, Statistics, Logic Theory, Pattern Matching.

Ohh I just don't know were the link comes from.

[The Vegan]

Consider these points when deciding whether you should "go pro" before deciding where you should "go pro."

You are young, in a potentially lucrative field with a good degree. I've been there though, and I agree, it can be quite boring and looking at the long run I can see why you are not sure if it's what you want. Consider ditching this job and getting something more flexible. Contract or consulting work with a firm. Don't try to go solo at this point as it is hard to get clients and run a business with little experience.
By getting a more flexible position it opens up more time for you to explore poker as an option, yet still gives you some stability in monthly income.
Please don't consider playing poker as a career until you are ready financially. Unless you prove to be extremely lucky, you will likely go broke if you aren't sufficiently prepared. Then you've been out of the job market for x number of months and potential employers are wondering what you were doing with your life and aren't sure if they want to hire you.
I don't know your full background, but as a 21 year-old who has just entered the job market after college, I can't believe you have a great sum of money. Going "pro" at say the 10/20 level doesn't give you a great income, even if you are a great player. You really should be playing higher than that. I know some people making do at 15/30, but they aren't doing great. 30/60 and above is really where it's at if you want to have an ok income.
Ideally you would get yourself a contract/consulting gig with flexible hours and time commitments and devote the rest of your time to poker. Build up your bankroll while letting the job take care of the bills. Rise through the limits until you are playing 20/40 or 30/60 at a good rate.
At this point you should know if you really want to play poker for a living. If you still feel you want to, then make sure you have at least 1000 times the big bet at your limit. I know you've read all over that you need 300 bets in your bankroll. This is a fine number if you are winning 1 BB per hour and you aren't taking any money out to live on. I strongly suggest a bigger roll for your psyche.

Think on this. You've got 300 times 40 to play in your 20/40 game. That's $12,000. Your monthly nut is say $1500 if you are conservative, but be honest, how much do you want to spend per month? What kind of lifestyle do you want? Chances are you'll want to pull out more than $1500 a month to live on. Even if it's only like $1500 or so, then lets say you go on a losing streak and your $12K has fallen to $8k. Now rent and bills are due and you take out $1.5K. You are down to $6.5K. You are thinking geez, I gotta win. I gotta turn this around. You are fretting a bit and don't play your best. The next month you don't lose, but you only make $1000. You take out your rent and bills again and now you are at $6K. Hopefully things turn around and you build back up, but what if the stress gets to you? What if you can handle the stress but the cards just run bad? Before you know it you've got $4K and you are trying to make a living in 20/40.
By making sure you are financially stable you can avoid some of this. Get rid of any credit card debt, student loans, other loans etc. Get yourself $40,000 before you go pro in that 20/40 game. Now if you hit a bad run it's not going to hurt as much when you still have to pull out that monthly nut. Now your bankroll will be much more likely to grow, than shrink and you can move up through the limits as you get enough money to feel comfortable.

[TheDuck]

<font color="blue"> It was a rhetorical question. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] </font>

[J.R.]

but after playing 25 hours a week for 4 months, I got tired of that too...

a bad run lasted long enough to sap my will to play,

I've only ever been to Atlantic City

So perhaps I'd enjoy that for longer than the online stint.

If I did go pro, it would probably only be for a couple years,

I have what is by all standards a pretty good IT job

You have a good job. You have already experienced burnout playing less than fulltime. You have little B&amp;M experience, but hope it will be different than online play. You don't even plan on being a pro for the rest of your life, so you will have to go back into the workforce, but not until your job skills are outdated and your resume has a big time gap in it.

I am biased- I have a job and play part-time, and don't have the stones/foolishness/skill to play for a living, but this seems like a no-brainer decision to me. Playing poker for a living will always be an option in the future, but by dropping from the workforce young, you severely foreclose your future working options, yet you still intend to (attempt to?) re-enter the workforce at a later time. You are foresaking a steady income stream to plunge into the unknown. Good luck if you give it a try, but you lose nothing by waiting, developing your poker skills, saving money, getting job experience, gowing emotionally and becoming more mature (not to say you are immature).

Just some musings.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi 2ndGoat,
After 20 years of IT, B.S. in Comp Sci and I'm not making "$100,000 a year" in IT, I can agree, IT can suck totally if you don't happen to have the current, in demand, high paying skill set. Even if you did, it's burnout city.
.
So do this.
.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>1. As others have suggested, keep your current job.
2. Ease into Pro Poker and establish you really can:
a. earn a living at it
b. not burn out on it
c. can stand the Casino environment 40+ hours a week
d. put up with the swings even a winning player
experiences, and its affects on you.
e. Can deal with a "cash only" existence since you
won't be able to get mortages, car loans etc.
3. If (2) works out for you go pro
4. If (2) doesn't work out for you... plan on career change:
a. Chase something you really want to do. Say
fly jets or whatever.
b. Finish the job of your education and get and
advanced degree that leads to an independant
profession (doctor, laywer etc. I.e. avoid being
a corp. "resource" unit... unless you can get
an Ivy League MBA and join the corp. ruling
class and manipulate drones... er ah "resources".)
c. Accept that life sux for worker bees and
drone on. Get married to a gal who was "convenient,
accidentally have kids, run up the credit cards,get
divorced and so on...</pre><hr />

But do anything not to get trapped in the middle working class suck hole that 95% are in. In 20 years you'll thank me.

Sincerely,
AA

[1800GAMBLER]

Try it? Your job will be there as will other jobs, if you [censored] up once you [censored] up, so be it.

[2ndGoat]

arg, long post eaten by computer. Will try again tomorrow perhaps.

Sincere thanks to everyone that has posted so far.

2ndGoat