Up and down; where next

[jlbreak]

I enjoy the posts here and have become a lover of this game.
I think it's time for me to step back though, as I am not sure where to go next.
I've only logged about 3000 hands on my tracker and am not sure where to go next.
Basically,

After 1500 hands, up $85
After 3000 hands, up $7

Seeing flop not in blinds 13 - 15%
around 25% of all flops

Zoomed up $100 in only 4 or 5 days after improving my position play (thanks to Holdem for advanced/Helmuth's book had me playing the first 3 positions left of dealer as up front instead of left of blinds)

Last 10 days nothing but bad cards, outdrawn, etc.


I don't bluff because .5/1 tables at party because it just doesn't look profitable due to low stakes letting everyone play anything and everything to river. Also, it's hard for me to get a fast read on other players with the 1000s of different players zooming in and out of games.



I am thinking of moving up to 1/2 tables, but I think I need to be able to clobber these tables and build up a good bankroll so that I feel ok being more aggressive as I move up.

I am re-reading both Poker theory and Holdem for adv, but am definitely getting a little discouraged.

I am also ready for a few good/honest suggestions.

Sorry for the long post, any help is appreciated.

My game has become much, much better than when I started, but I'm not sure where to focus my poker studies.

[CMangano]

3000 hands is not that many hands. Playing 2 tables you can easily play 3000 hands in 30 hours or less. However, if you have only made 7 bb's in 30 hours, that doesn't sound right. Do you make big laydowns on the turn or river? Do you play your hands aggressively enough?

I would post some hands and see what others think. Go through your tracker and find some hands that you think you may have played incorrectly or have questions on. Even post some of your "no-brainer" type hands and make sure you are getting the most from them.

[Tosh]

I wouldn't ever recommend moving up limits until you can regularly beat your current limit.

If you post some hands on here you will soon discover where your major problems lie.

[jlbreak]

I do have a lot of trouble playing agressively against the .5/1 players. I only seem to loose more money.

And the $7 is not BB, it's how my total profit has dropped too after the last 1500 hands.

[CMangano]

$7 at the .5/1 limit is also 7bb's. Just like $1000 at the .5/1 would be 1000bb's. So in 30 (or more) hours of play you are averaging about .3bb's/hour. It's better than losing but I don't think you are ready to move up.

I would post some hands. I would also read Winning Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones. He probably errs on the side of tightness for these games, but I think it is the best book for someone just learning. HPFAP is a great book, but many of those plays don't work at these limits.

[NRS]

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoy the posts here and have become a lover of this game.
I think it's time for me to step back though, as I am not sure where to go next.
I've only logged about 3000 hands on my tracker and am not sure where to go next.
Basically,

After 1500 hands, up $85
After 3000 hands, up $7

Seeing flop not in blinds 13 - 15%
around 25% of all flops

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can probably play a few more hands profitably. Roughly 30% of hands have a positive EV on a 10-person table given the (rather dubious) assumption that all players play through all the way. While some of those hands shouldn't be played because they're very difficult to leverage post-flop, 13-15% is too low, and if the other players are paying attention to your game, it will be difficult to extract bets out of them when you hit something.

[ QUOTE ]
I am thinking of moving up to 1/2 tables, but I think I need to be able to clobber these tables and build up a good bankroll so that I feel ok being more aggressive as I move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing to fear about the $1/$2 tables unless you're worried about your bankroll. There are still plenty of poor players.

Aggressive play is rewarded more as you move up; for me that's great because that's my style anyway (I seem to have hit my stride at $2/$4), but if you've been playing a passive, technical game (boring!!!) you may need to shift gears a little bit.

[jlbreak]

I haven't worded my post correctly,

After being up 88 after 1500 hands, things have gone so bad in the last week or so that the 88 is now down to 7, I've lost 81 BB.

I'm a little leary of posting hands for fear that I'll only make myself an easier target.

If I do post hand histories, how many and what type of hands should I post.

Thanks for the help though, and I will try to post some hand histories soon.

[CMangano]

"I think you can probably play a few more hands profitably. Roughly 30% of hands have a positive EV on a 10-person table given the (rather dubious) assumption that all players play through all the way. While some of those hands shouldn't be played because they're very difficult to leverage post-flop, 13-15% is too low, and if the other players are paying attention to your game, it will be difficult to extract bets out of them when you hit something."

This may be true, but I think very few people can play 30% of the hands for +EV. I don't think 13-15% is too low (this is outside the blinds), especially when you are just starting.

"There's nothing to fear about the $1/$2 tables unless you're worried about your bankroll. There are still plenty of poor players."

Exactly, so no reason to think moving up is the answer. When he can beat these games consistently, he can think about moving up.

[CMangano]

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. After 3000 hands, you are showing a 7bb profit (or a $7 profit). Granted, at one time you had an 88bb (or $88 profit), but after 3000 hands you don't. It is all one big session, and 3000 hands into your session, you are up 7bb's (or $7), that is how you need to look at it.

You won't learn unless you post hands. Sure, you will probably find out you are doing a lot of things wrong, but people won't be saying it in a way to insult you. They will be doing it in a way to show you were you are making mistakes, and how you should fix those mistakes.

As for hands, I would check my Poker Tracker and find hands that you are losing money with that you think you shouldn't be (like if you were losing money with AK for instance). I would also find hands you are winning money with that you should be, and post some of those, especially if you were against an aggressive opponent. You may be calling when you should raise, checking when you should bet, etc. Only way to find out is to post some hands.

If I had to guess, I would say you are not value betting the river enough. You are going into call down mode too soon (getting raised on flop with big hands), and folding on the turn or river incorrectly.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little leary of posting hands for fear that I'll only make myself an easier target.


[/ QUOTE ]

Its the best way to learn.

If you post some hands make sure to write them out in a readable format and not just copy and paste the history.