Staying With A HAnd

[slider77]

I'm 4 weeks new to poker, and one of my initial faults was not staying with a hand long enough in these loose online games.

I still made a mistake here though - only real bad one of the night though.

I get [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J
in early position.


I raise - and LP reraise I re-raise - and 4 of us go to the flop - SB,me, LP, and the button. I'm thinking the LP is on a big pair.

The flop is

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5

SB checks , I check, LP calls, call, call, call.

Turn card is [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9

I check to raiser again - call, fold, and now a raise from SB.

I figured either the big pair gets me or SB got his straight, so I fold. (river was [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6)

Well, turns out UTG had [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 - and LP had [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K so the guy playing the crappy hand won.

What's the take away here - don't assume such good hands - or never fold until you see an overcard?

[Tosh]

If you think LP has a big pair pre flop why cap ?

Thats a nice flop for you, why aren't you betting? I like betting here over check raising, because you can bet hoping LP will raise to drive out the SB.

I think this is a terrible fold. One raise and you chuck an overpair ? I don't like it at all, it screams weak tight to me.

[crockpot]

i agree that this is a weak-tight play. but when you're playing in a loose low-stakes game, weak-tight play is what wins money. people who check-raise in this spot always have one pair beat, so you are drawing to few outs and don't know what they are. if LP actually has a big pair, you are down to two outs. LP might reraise if he has a big pair. i like this fold here, and i would regularly make it at a low-limit game where the players were playing obviously.

i do agree that it is a poor play to cap pre-flop. among other things, jacks do not play well in a four way pot. why not take the flop and hope for the best?

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
in a loose low-stakes game, weak-tight play is what wins money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weak tight never wins the money.

[slider77]

Hmmm...I do like trying to squeeze out the person between me and the LP here with a bet and possible raise by the LP. I can 1) get info on the raiser and 2) try to eliminate 1, maybe 2 other players.

And you're right, if I am capping, a flop like this shouldn't scare me at all.

But like crock said, people are pretty obvious when they bet big. It was the 2 players between me and the LP coldcalling 2 and 2.5 bets pre-flop that threw me off my game. I'm basically think with 3 positive moves like that, JJ might not be the best hand here.

Well, anyway, I am better when for my first week or 2, I would defend anything TT or better to the river no matter what. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[slider77]

and yeah, I can see how automatically folding when an overcard hits would make you a prime candidate to be bluffed by a good player.....

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
when you're playing in a loose low-stakes game, weak-tight play is what wins money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry crock, but this is terrible advice. Proper tight-aggressive play is what wins the money.

[ QUOTE ]
people who check-raise in this spot always have one pair beat

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you have a case of the weak-tighys yourself and depending on the situation this is not necessarily true.

Peace,
LJF33

[Joe Tall]

Bet this flop here, brother. You capped preflop and went in to call mode, no good.

[ QUOTE ]
I raise - and LP reraise I re-raise - and 4 of us go to the flop - SB,me, LP, and the button. I'm thinking the LP is on a big pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why cap the flop if you are thinking this? The only way to find out if the raiser has a larger over pair after capping is betting out on this raggy flop.

[ QUOTE ]
What's the take away here - don't assume such good hands

[/ QUOTE ]

You can assume good cards, sure. However, betting this flop will give you information if your assumtion is correct.

[ QUOTE ]
or never fold until you see an overcard?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't automatically play like this, granted this will take experience, but auto-folding when an over-card hits will cost you money on a hand like this.

Welcome to the forum,
Larry Joe

[rayrns]

Bet the flop. If you are raised then the SB (winner) has to decide if he wants to cold call 2 with what he must think now is the third best hand. If he was to fold, then you can go into check/call mode, and take down this pot.