Q9 suited on the button. Comments Please

[MrG]

I am on the button with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 limp to me, I call, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, EP bets, everyone calls.

Turn:
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Does this make my hand better or worse? I have top pair now but don't like my kicker and any flush draw is dead.
BB checks, EP bets, Fold, call, Fold, I call, Fold.

River:
4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

So I have top pair with a weak kicker.

EP bets, LP calls, I call.

I am thinking that my hand doesn't warrant an overcall but the pot is good sized, so I called with top pair. EP has been betting the whole time and now I wish I raised when the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] came on the turn. I think I would have a better read on the EP.

EP 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] wins with a rivered st8.
LP Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Thanks for all the advice.

P.s. Why do some of the hands on UB microlimit baffle me. Last night I lost a showdown with A high flush to a St8 flush, and there was a third flush Q high. In total at least nine clubs out during the hand, seems unreal?

[Apocalypse]

preflop just fine. I'd raise in case with possible stealing blinds, but four ppl limping in makes a call just right IMO

-The way EP plays this game is wrong in my view. Assuming you have been sitting here for more than 10-20 games with this guy i think you should have realised this. His aim with 76s on EP should be to hope to get as many freecards as possible to make his straight, low 2 pair or set. Call on flop if LP bets is for him ok of course-

On the turn, a raise is a sure thing. Almost against every player, but against a guy like EP you know you are favorite. If he'd reraise, a call on your part would still be justified...

River: bad luck. [censored] happens etc. etc. EP bets you call. A call is correct IMO because of his profile, and his play....

[Aces McGee]

His aim with 76s on EP should be to hope to get as many freecards as possible to make his straight.

What's wrong with betting your middle pair with an open-ended straight draw on a board that probably no one got a huge piece of?

[Apocalypse]

I must admit rereading my post is little bit more degrading to EP than serves him right. But on EP i wouldn't like the possibility of the ball in my court for the turn holding middle pair and an open-ended-straight-draw. On LP it would be different. Anyone having J9o and up would still have a justifiable call on the flop. There are still a lot of possibilities that could easily destroy your hand. I guess i'd still be aiming for a free card on the turn, considering its a flop most ppl will not burn their hands on if not holding top pair. But please correct me if im wrong, because im just starting out...

[The Bear]

I don't limp w/ Q9s...ever. And given the way you played this hand, I don't think you should either. Marginal hand, just toss it.

BUT, assuming that you are going to play the hand, I would proceed as follows.

Flop: I like the call here. You certainly can't fold. Some players would advocate raising, but I'm not a big fan of that play w/ this hand. You won't thin the field to clean up your Q's and you probably won't get a free card. I think you've got an easy call.

Turn: [ QUOTE ]
Does this make my hand better or worse?

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes your hand much, much better. On the flop, you have a weak draw, a backdoor draw and overcards. On the turn, you have top pair and a weak draw. Now the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might not be clean, but you shouldn't care that much. You now have a made hand w/ a draw. Is it a super strong hand? No, but you're now in a position to take the pot down without improving.

Given the new nature of your hand, you have to raise the turn. You have good reason to think you're ahead and if you aren't, you have between 3 and 9 outs. You also have the advantage of position, so you have the option to check behind if the river is something ugly like 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

River: I think the overcall is okay here. You'll win this pot a fair number of times, so that probably makes it worthwhile.


General: Be more aggressive.

Final Note:
[ QUOTE ]
Why do some of the hands on UB microlimit baffle me. Last night I lost a showdown with A high flush to a St8 flush, and there was a third flush Q high. In total at least nine clubs out during the hand, seems unreal?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's really not unreasonable. Don't fall in to the trap of thinking "online poker is a conspiracy". The players on this forum are proof that the game isn't rigged.

[NRS]

I think you should have considered folding on the flop.

Yeah, Q is an overpair, but not a particuarly strong overpair, especially with that kicker. Otherwise, you've got a gutshot straight draw that is likely to split the pot even if it hits, runner-runner for the flush ... your odds aren't good here. And there are a bunch of limpers ahead of you.

I don't mind playing something like Q9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button, but if you don't catch a piece of the flop, and you're bet into, it's an easy muck. And for goodness sakes, if you play it, and one of your outs hits on the turn, you've got to bet that.

[The Bear]

Besides limping in preflop, I think EP played his hand very well. He definitely DID NOT play it poorly.

[angry young man]

preflop, I'd do the same but I'm not sure I'm happy with it. thinking about giving this hand the ax

flop. clear call with the backdoor flush and Q outs.

turn. I'd raise

river. I'd probably call but I'd be mad at myself for doing so. If I'd raised and EP bet out and LP called I could definitely fold.

. In total at least nine clubs out during the hand, seems unreal?
bite your tongue, we don't want to start that kind of talk around here again [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Aces McGee]

If you are going to play your top pair weakly because you don't like your kicker, then you should fold this on the flop. The number of times you don't hit will cost more than you'll gain if you play so weakly when you do hit.

Aces McGee

[Aces McGee]

Betting your open-ended straight and big flush draws is effective for a number of reasons.

One, it puts more money in the pot for when you do hit.

Two, it disguises your hand. Since few low limit players will bet their draws, few will take imagine that you are doing so. When you do make your hand, you can often get more bets with it, because your opponents will misread you.

Three, it gives a better chance to take the pot down without a showdown, and you should never complain about winning a pot.

Add to the equation the fact that EP has middle pair, and I think this is an easy bet with this innocuous-looking flop. He might very well be best already, and he has to protect that. He also has no way of knowing where he stands unless he bets -- and it's best to do that on the cheap street.

If I'm wrong or missed anything, someone fill in the holes or correct me.

Aces McGee