Another QQ hand, similiar to one last night

[Brian]

Sorry guys that I keep asking questions about pocket pairs that may seem obvious to you, especially when it appears to be almost the exact same question I had last night. But, this ones a little different...

Party 1/2, dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the button. No read on the table whatsoever. UTG calls, EP calls, LP poster checks, I raise, SB comes along, BB folds, rest call. 5 to the flop for 11sb.

Flop: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to EP who bets, LP calls. I called here because of backdoor straight, flush, and set opportunities. It's low limits and people are usually fairly predictable, so I (maybe foolishly) put EP on having a King.

So I think that's the mistake of this hand. I can see arguments for folding, calling, and raising here. I think raising may have been the best play, so I can find out if I am behind to a King here or not. But, since I was so quick to put EP on a King, I went into calling mode. SB calls, UTG folds. 4 to the Turn for 15sb (7.5bb)

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

EP bets, everyone calls. 4 to the River for 11.5bb.

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

EP bets, LP folds, I make a crying call, SB folds.

In retrospect, I don't think I had the odds to be calling hoping to spike a set, or runner runner a flush or straight. So, I think that I should've folded or raised on the Flop.

I'm going to go ahead and post the results below, because I think from the wording of this post, most of the astute readers have figured out what happened anyways. Results below:

********RESULTS********

EP has J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and I win.

-Brian

[GuyOnTilt]

Preflop: Good raise, of course.

Flop: I have trouble with this myself. In a short-handed pot (which I realize this isn't), my tendency is to do this: I raise the flop, bet the turn, and check-thru on the river. This is cheaper than calling down all the way, and charges any potential draws more than just calling down. However, this method only applies if you think there's a decent chance that your second pair is good. If the bettor is a tight solid player, I'd muck it. If there are many overcallers after your raise, I wouldn't even bother betting the turn as you're likely to get called down by top pair. Also, if there's multiple callers after the inital bettor before the action gets to you, I'd muck, as there's a high probability you're drawing to a 2-outer.

Also, your reason for pondering a raise is incorrect thinking. Raising the flop will, in no way, give you a read on whether or not the inital bettor has a King. Since you raised preflop, he would simply check-call the whole way afraid of aces or a stronger King.

In your situation, I would've raised the flop and taken it from there. If you're 3-bet on the flop, you should lay it down. If you're check-raised on the turn, you should lay it down. If bet into at any time during the hand, I'd lay it down. All this, of course, is assuming your opponent(s) is(are) your typical low-limit player(s).

That's my .02, but then again, I'm not the most pokerest of pokerers.