"Advantage Craps System"

[Batman]

I saw the website of Jerry Patterson, casinogamblingedge.com
Jerry Patterson used to be a well-respected blackjack expert, but then he started selling a bizzare blackjack system called Target. Mason Malmuth rated his books a 1 (out of a possible 10).

He now claims to have a winning craps system, called PARR.
It supposedly teaches you how to spin dice to lower the probability that a 7 will be thrown, so you would seven-out less often.
It sounds like it might work, and he says Steve Forte helped develop this system. But it sounds strange, and I'd reckon that someone who loves and sells TARGET wouldn't be very likely to have an excellent craps system.

Has anyone ever bought and used his craps system?
And would you recommend it?

[Al Mirpuri]

Casino managers have a saying:

All players go broke, but system players go broke systematically.

You really should know better.

Manipulating the dice is most likely impossible, and even if possible, illegal. They don't even let Blackjack players count cards, and counting cards is a mental activity, never mind physical manipulation of the dice.

The standard deviation inherent in all games of chance could make someone a winner over the short term or even the long term. It is like winning the lottery and carrying on buying tickets. Are you that man, possessing so much luck that you are going to beat the house. Answer: no.

There really are no winning craps players only liars.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If indeed you *could* throw the dice in such a way to lower the probability of a 7 appearing (and I doubt it could be done with fair dice), then there's still one hurdle to overcome.

Since the system would only work while you held the dice, your betting pattern would become obvious to the Box Man almost immediately and fairly soon you wouldn't be welcome in any casino..

[Terry]

GROOOAAAN

Apparently some people are as stupid as these guys think they are. The really bad news is that Steve Forte is a pretty smart guy, and if he's going to start selling scam systems he's likely to do pretty well at it.

ARRRRGGGGG

[CrackerZack]

Steve Forte?

I know someone named Steve Forte. He's a bit of a microsoft disciple/speaker/etc...

Same guy?

[tpir90036]

the only possible way to influence the dice is to slide them across the table.....which is illegal.

and even if you could manipulate the dice the way they say you can....once they hit the corrugated back wall or someone elses chips it would all go out the window.

full-on b.s.

they also claim that there are other people who shoot in a rhythm who don't even know they do so you can bet safely on them as well. whatever...

[Zele]

I'm not sure if this dice rolling skill is possible to develop, but if you could, you might be able to extract an edge with a flat bet, regardless of who is shooting.

Assume you're at a table with 11 other players. You bet each one to pass for one unit, giving up 1.4% edge for a total of -.15 units EV. Then you bet yourself for one unit, and your dice rolling skill earns you a 50% edge. So you earn +.50 units. Therefore, each round of the table you net .35 units EV.

Again, I don't think this is really possible, although there is one surefire way to beat craps. It's in the literature. (HINT: Doesn't work in Vegas.)

[Al Mirpuri]

Scarne On Dice has a chapter on cheating with dice. It is possible to manipulate dice to bring up certain numbers. However, the rules usually work against this: dice must be thrown from a cup, bounce over a certain line, etc. This is what I meant in my original reply that it is not possible to manipulate the dice. It is possible as a physical act. However, the casinos will not give you the conditions in which you can pull it off.

I was really shocked by the original post that started this whole thread. That was why my response was a little more forceful than it would usually be.

[Terry]

No, not the Microsoft guy. Skilled BJ player, wrote the book "Read the Dealer", now a "gaming consultant."

[Wake up CALL]

Batman I will sell you a system where I guarantee you wil never go broke. If somehow you do lose your stake I will reimburse you 100% as long as you followed my systems simple 2 step instructions explicitly.