Omaha 8. When do you play A3?

[Fraubump]

I've been playing O8 for about a year and it's still kind of a mystery to me figuring out when it is proper to play A3 hands, which most authors claim are playable. Some A3 hands are obviously playable: As3KsK and some are obviously not: A37J. But most are inbetween. It seems like I just wind up throwing it away most of the time unless I flop a 2 or a high and it seems pretty borderline whether I'm getting +ev out of it. Does anyone good really call down A3 for low without a 2 on the board (and no shot at high) with more than one other player in the pot?

A specific case: would you play any As3xx?
Any A34x?
Any A3pair?

A3 seems more playable the later you are the first to open in part because you might have best low hand and in part because if there are a lot of callers it seems much more likely that most of your miracle 2's are gone.

I feel like knowing when to play these hands is an important dividing line between proper and improper starting hands.

Thanks, Frau

[Aragorn]

I generally play it if the aces is suited with another card or A34. In a loose game, I'll play A35 or A3Kx if the king is suited.

A blank A3 isn't worth much. You not only need a 2 to flop but you also need 2 more low cards without getting counterfeited. Unlike A34, you have no outs when you get counterfeited.

But I'm probably the tightest player in most games.

[crockpot]

even though o/8 is less of a coordinated-hand game than omaha high, it's still important to look at how all four cards work together. since scooping or 3/4ing a pot in o/8 is worth so much, you should be looking mainly at scoop potential in your starting hands, especially at pot limit. if you can't find it, then you need outstanding potential in one direction. for that reason, i'd play any A2 in a limit game unless a passive player raised preflop, but i think A3 should be tossed unless there's an accompanying wheel card, pair, or high cards suited to the ace. of course, in a very loose game with 6 players per flop and little raising preflop, you're getting good odds to play any A3, but thanks to online micro-limits these games are rare at limits higher than .50/1.

[Buzz]

Fraubump - I don’t think you’ll go far wrong if you play all A3XX hands that are suited to the ace, except A339s. Double suited is (obviously) even better.

As for non-suited A3XX hands, you might include hands with another wheel card other than another trey, except for A349n, A358n, A359n, and A35Tn, in your arsenal. Maybe you won’t do very well playing those particular four (A349n, A358n, A359n, and A35Tn).

Continuing with non-suited A3XX hands, You might do all right by also including A3KKn, A3QQn, A3QKn, A3JJn and A3TTn. Except for A3KKn, which I think is a solid playing hand despite not being suited, the other four hands in this category seem iffy - maybe for play in late position, depending on your read of the situation. I’d also tend to play A36Kn in late position.

That’s pretty much it for A3XX.

To answer your specific questions,

"A specific case: would you play any As3xx?"

Yes, any As3XX. (I assume you mean suited ace).

"Any A34x?"

Almost any A34X. As stated above, maybe not A349n.

"Any A3pair?"

No, not any A3pair (unless the hand also has a suited ace). Just A344, A355, A3TT, A3JJ, A3QQ, and A3KK - and some of those are marginal.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[chaos]

I play approximately what Buzz does. The more marginal hands I'll only play in late position for a single bet. I also sometimes play an A3 with two picture cards (e.g. A3JQ, A3JK). With these types of hands I'm hoping for 2 or 3 high cards on the flop. If you happen to backdoor the low it will be less likely that you will need the nuts. (But that depends on the players. Some players will chase a one low card flop to the river with their naked A2.)

[Maroon]

It's also important what limits you are playing at.

Playing A3xx with pros at the high limits is fraught with danger. You can easily get caught in a raising war. But At the low limits, you can play almost any A3, because people rarely raise in those game without the stone-cold nuts.

Also, remember that in Omaha, you want to be drawing for the whole pot. So when you play A3, you're hoping for one specific card to show up on the flop, just so you can escape with half the pot. Whereas, when you play A2, you have a lock on half the pot, and can base your decisions purely on your outs for the high.

[bebopalula]

Simple question:
In a typical game - I assume that if I play A3 and there's a low on the flop but no 2 - the correct play is to fold (assuming i have no chance of a high). I guess the same would apply to 23 if there is no ace on the board.

Is this correct? Should I ALWAYS be going for the nuts? (without exception)

[crockpot]

this depends a lot on the looseness of the game and the exact situation, but the auto-pilot play in a typical (5 players/flop) game is to fold. you need a perfect card to come off to be confident about your chance to win half the pot (this assumes you have no high draw) and the odds are not there. if no one has an A2, the odds of a quartering are very high. you have no high hand. this will prove to be a bad call in the long run.

[Easy E]

One raise, probably. Two or more, your A3 hand might want some help to go with it, correct?