This one just feels wrong

#1 12-05-2005, 05:07 PM

This hand just felt wrong from start to finish. UTG is very loose and quite passive. His call on the flop could mean a very wide variety of hands, from sets to overcards really. UTG+1 is unknown to me. I don't think I butchered the river, but all the other streets I am very unsure of, including preflop. I'll post why I did what I did later. Flame away!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($180.60)
MP ($219.20)
Hero ($225.05)
SB ($465.55)
BB ($85.91)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, Hero calls $2, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets $9.5, Hero calls $9.50, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $9.50.

Turn: ($38.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $7, Hero raises to $35, UTG calls $35, MP folds.

River: ($115.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $150.50

Dumle

meleader2 · #2 12-05-2005, 05:08 PM

35$ to win 150$ is a bad fold, call that river. raise that flop! i'd consider just calling that turn bet.

vanHelsing · #3 12-05-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I butchered the river, but all the other streets I am very unsure of, including preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hm, I can't see how I fold this river. Looks like begging for a cheap SD with something like a 7 etc. too often. Odds are too good to let this one go for me.

While I usually raise PF, calling can't be too wrong.

rwanger · #4 12-05-2005, 05:24 PM

I'm with them.

Raise flop, don't give cheap draws...you're probably best but you have no idea where you are if you just call.

As played, I don't have a problem with turn raise, but like I said, raise flop. Since everyone limped pf, they could have anything.

Definately call the river. Odds are too good. If you thought you were ahead on the turn when you raised, there is no reason to believe he caught you at the river.

Phoenix1010 · #5 12-05-2005, 05:36 PM

Raise the flop. Having failed that, the turn raise is fine. That river is butchered. You're good here waaay more than 20%.

savman · #6 12-05-2005, 06:05 PM

dumle,

i agree u should raise flop. calling leads to all kinds of bad things, i.e. u lose a lot of money just calling here. as for pf, depends on a lot of things. most important among these is who limped in front and what are their tendancies. 99 i always raise, 77 i limp 88 i personally limp in 200NL party, but i dont raise pf near as much as some other people. there is nothing wrong with limping or raising this spot imo. if it were folded to you i would open with 88. river, u have to call here. u dont have to be right often, and he certainly is not sure of his hand so i suspect u are good here more than u think.

swarm · #7 12-05-2005, 06:24 PM

The mistake is preflop by not raising with 88 on the button. You have two limpers so bump it up to 15-20 so you either isolate to 1 player or take it down preflop.

With 1 caller you are making a 3/4 pot bet on almost all flops and taking it down a high percentage of the time.

I would never play this hand this way but i don't see myself folding to the river bet.

#8 12-05-2005, 07:10 PM

i'd consider just calling that turn bet.

My reasons for not calling the turn bet was that the board was quite draw-heavy and the bet was very weak. UTG could be drawing to a lot of hands and I wanted him to pay dearly if he wanted to see a river.

Dumle

meleader2 · #9 12-05-2005, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'd consider just calling that turn bet.

My reasons for not calling the turn bet was that the board was quite draw-heavy and the bet was very weak. UTG could be drawing to a lot of hands and I wanted him to pay dearly if he wanted to see a river.

Dumle

[/ QUOTE ]

that's understandable. i'm sure you get now to call the river, seeing as the nonspade brick hit...especially if that was your original intention [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

#10 12-05-2005, 07:16 PM

Hm, I can't see how I fold this river. Looks like begging for a cheap SD with something like a 7 etc. too often. Odds are too good to let this one go for me.

He gave me very good odds indeed. However, it just seems like a very strange bet if he holds a seven. Also, even a loose guy like this will most likely get out on the turn when I raise. I even considered a busted flush draw that decided to bluff the river, but he must be very certain that I'd call the river since I have showed so much strength. Just my thoughts, though, since the consensus is a call, maybe I should reevaluate. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Dumle