JJ in BB, your play?

[fnurt]

$200 NL tourney on PokerStars, about 200 players left, top 63 get paid. I have 9k which is about an average stack. Blinds are 200/400 with 25 ante.

I get dealt JJ in the big blind. Folded around to button who makes it 1600 to go, his stack is about as big as mine. SB has about 4k and goes all-in.

I haven't been at the table long but both of them seem normal so far. What's your play here?

[Justaloser]

I know what I've learned to do here. Fold.

What I'm thinking is this. If either of them has AA, KK or QQ, you're in big trouble. If they have AK, AQ (or to a lesser extent AJ), it's a coin flip. Unless you're sure about what they'd play (and you stated you weren't in this case), I'd let them fight it out and live to fight another day. If you call, you've got to worry about the button (who has position on you) and you've got no idea where you stand. You're basically hoping to flop a set at that point. You could raise to try and get the button out, but then you have to worry about whether or not you're behind against both the button and the SB.

By folding, you can get more information about both players (although maybe not much), and you're not risking any chips in the process.

Also it's still relatively far out of the money, no reason to gamble half your stack.

[Men the Master]

Call, of course! The button was obviously stealing with Q-8. SB naturally knew this and was making a re-steal with AJ. Your JJ is a super-mega-powerhouse dominator at this point.

[sam h]

All-in. JJ should be a significant favorite against the range of hands an openraising button and a shortstacked SB should have in this situation. This is a good spot to gamble.

[John_Manley]

My first response is to fold. In reality though it depends on how those players had been playing earlier. Do they do a lot of bluffing. Does the SB guy go over the top a lot. If both of these are true then you very well may have the best hand. Unfortunately JJ gets beat by a lot of mediocre hands and unless I was confident about a bluff I would fold. Remember when you are out you are out and when you are out you have failed.

[Rickfish]

Without reading other's replies I would say fold. I don't like the all-in by the SB because a) he should have a decent hand which may be better than JJ and b) there is no chance of winning the whole pot by raising or betting the flop. In favour of calling, the all-in should stop the button bluffing the flop if it comes, say, K82. It think I probably prefer re-raising to calling because I might win a 10,000 side-pot even if I lose to the SB. But this is a high risk strategy. In addition, it is quite likely that the button will fold leaving you heads up with the SB. While that may seem attractive it is likely that he has 2 overcards or an overpair if he is a solid player. But you never know on Pokerstars - it depends whether he is one of the ones who overplays medium (or even small) pairs.

I think I prefer to keep my 9000 intact and wait for a better situation.

[sam h]

"Unfortunately JJ gets beat by a lot of mediocre hands"

So does AA. If you are afraid to stack off with JJ against mediocre hands like A5 here because you will get beat 30% of the time, then you will never have much success in tournaments.

"Remember when you are out you are out and when you are out you have failed."

This is a bad way to think about poker in general and poker tournaments in particular.

[sam h]

"What I'm thinking is this. If either of them has AA, KK or QQ, you're in big trouble. If they have AK, AQ (or to a lesser extent AJ), it's a coin flip."

You're a big favorite over AJ - that's definitely not a coin flip. Why do you think that these players are likely to have AA, KK, or QQ?

[Justaloser]

I only included AJ because that is a hand that many will go all-in with. You're right that it's not a coin flip, which is why it was noted as an exception.

Why do I put them on big hands? Because it's a lot SAFER to do so. If I put them on AA and KK, then it's an easy fold. If I decide that one is stealing with QJs and the other decided to pop him off with 99, then I'm asking for trouble.

As I said before, this to me is not a gambling spot. Why? Because he said that he was new to the table and wasn't sure of their playstyles. If he had seen bluffs and snapoffs, I think he would have a better idea how to play his cards. Fnurt is a very good tourney player, so I can't recommend that he gamble his chips like that. If we were discussing a weaker player who's best chance of winning was reliant on "getting lucky" then all-in is a much better choice.

I stick by my statement of mucking and waiting for a better spot. He's got good chip position, and if they will make a bad mistake here, they're likely to make it again when you can take advantage.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Calling would be a big mistake, in my mind. I would hate to entice the button to call with AQ or KQ here that he would almost certainly fold if you reraised all-in. If he has AK, AA, or KK, he's almost certain to call no matter what you do. QQ is also a highly like play no matter what.

However, he could have a lot of Ax and Ky type hands. While it doesn't kill you if they come in, you'd probably rather have them out at this point. As for SB, while he also could have a premium hand, he could just have a decent A, or any pair. As such, I'm happy to race him for T4000 each with T1600 of dead money from the button.

This is definitely fold or all-in in my mind, and I think all-in is the better choice.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)