Full House-----Too Passive?

mscags · #1 11-26-2005, 08:10 PM

No read on either villian. Is this too passive? Anyone bet this river?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, MP calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP raises, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP calls $19.50 (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (11.97 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 11.97 BB

krishanleong · #2 11-26-2005, 08:35 PM

Don't post the river check-through. Just cut it off saying you are planning on calling. You'll get less biased answers that way. It's a tough hand. I'm not real happy with the preflop action. BB calling the flop and leading the turn is pretty strange. The normal line with an overpair would be to 3-bet the flop or to check raise the nearly all in MP on the turn. The lead is a really bad play for an overpair. With a solid read I think I could cr the turn/fold to a 3-bet. Otherwise I think check calling down is a good line. The board just isn't scary and the MP guy makes bets very hard to read.

Krishan

jba · #3 11-26-2005, 09:03 PM

well I really want to bet/fold the river but like krishan said I might be biased. isn't there zero chance we are getting raised by a better hand here? if we had AQ+ and had paired that i would be a bit more concerned about folding half of a split pot but we're not splitting here if BB raises a river bet (and he's not a freak show)

I really dont think the passivity in general is that bad, any one who is behind is very far behind at this point, and everyone knows you need to showdown to drag this pot. missing bets doesn't look like our biggest concern in this hand.

mscags · #4 11-26-2005, 09:05 PM

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I'm not real happy with the preflop action

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Did you mean the flop action or was there something specific preflop that you didn't like?

jba · #5 11-26-2005, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not real happy with the preflop action

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean the flop action or was there something specific preflop that you didn't like?

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i was wondering about preflop

I mean 2 bets to play ATo in what is very often four-way is obv less than ideal. I think depending on reads/table image etc I fold here sometimes.

how low do you go here? A8o? KJo?

krishanleong · #6 11-26-2005, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not real happy with the preflop action

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean the flop action or was there something specific preflop that you didn't like?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling from the sb is okay but your close to the line. When you get 3-bet I would be like, "Okay I called a hand pretty close to the +EV line and now I get 3-bet. I'm going to have to ditch this hand unless the flop hits me pretty hard since there is a good chance of an overpair/me being dominated".

But you did hit the flop pretty hard and I think you played okay. I just wanted to point out how crappy getting 3-bet preflop is when you have a marginal hand.

Krishan

mscags · #7 11-26-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not real happy with the preflop action

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean the flop action or was there something specific preflop that you didn't like?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling from the sb is okay but your close to the line. When you get 3-bet I would be like, "Okay I called a hand pretty close to the +EV line and now I get 3-bet. I'm going to have to ditch this hand unless the flop hits me pretty hard since there is a good chance of an overpair/me being dominated".

But you did hit the flop pretty hard and I think you played okay. I just wanted to point out how crappy getting 3-bet preflop is when you have a marginal hand.

Krishan

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I def agree, once I got three bet I was really hating my hand. Thanks for pointing that out though because I usually play games with a 2/3 SB and that would be automatic for me, but with this structure I think it takes a little more thought.

#8 11-26-2005, 11:53 PM

Depending on the PF raiser, calling a raise in the SB with ATo can be either OK or bad. If he's raising 30% from anywhere, you are likely fine. If he's a tag though, you are in a best case scenario (if he has the other ace) breaking even with him.

Jeff W · #9 11-27-2005, 12:41 AM

I'd reraise pre flop. I'd reraise the flop if I didn't reraise pre flop. I'd raise the turn if I didn't reraise the flop. I'd bet the river if I didn't raise the turn.

Spicymoose · #10 11-27-2005, 12:44 PM

I think I normally check raise this flop. Given that it is raised, I like check-3betting. BB could easily have overcards, and MP might have JT, QT, KT, 99, 88, 77, 66. Pot is getting big, so protect it.