TP Checkup

[PygmyHero]

I think that I'm struggling to accurately assess how strong TP is in short handed games, so I would apprecaite comments on any / all hands.

Paradise 1/2 5 max, 4 handed

Preflop: Hero button with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, Hero calls, SB completes, <font color="red"> BB raises, </font> UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666"> SB folds </font>

Flop: (7 SB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets, </font> BB calls, UTG calls

Turn: (5 BB) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets, </font> BB calls, UTG calls

River: (8 BB) A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Should I be betting here on the end? The flop was pretty draw heavy; can I get a call from a busted draw (i.e. flush with a small pair, 98 that paired the turn, etc.), or other losing hand? Or by betting do I set myself up to get c/r-ed by A high or a bluff that I have trouble calling? I do not feel that checking the turn to try and induce a river bluff here is good as I expect to be called in both places when I bet the turn, and my hand is not strong enough to give a free card (again, especially with the coordinated board). I know that some would prefer a PFR, but I did not feel that was optimal given the table - I would appreciate if your comments focused on the other streets.


Paradise 1/2 5 max, 4 handed

Preflop: Hero is BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666"> 1 fold, </font> Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: (3 SB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets, </font> Button calls, SB folds

Turn: (2.5 BB) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
Hero checks, Button checks

River: (2.5 BB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

Should I be betting the turn here despite my weak kicker? Again, the board is extremely coordinated and I was maybe stupid to give a free card to what could be a flush and / or straight draw. As the hand played out, am I snapping off a river bluff here from a busted draw / small pair / A high (who has put me on a draw)?


Paradise 1/2 5 max, 5 handed

Preflop: Hero is BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: (5 SB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (5 players) </font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero folds

I'm not going to post the rest of the hand as it is as irrelevant as the results are to the first two hands. I guess I have two questions on this: should I be leading out here with TPMK? I expect anyone with overcards to call (correctly). As the hand played out, when it gets back to me called in 4 spots, I am worried that I do not have the best hand. Even if I do, I do not necessarily want to continue here when I am OOP and will not be able to protect my hand on the turn. Nor do I think I will be able to figure out where I stand.

[MrWookie47]

In every spot where you checked, I bet.

[2+2 Junkie]

Hand 1: Bet that river, if raised, so be it, you pay the other guy sometimes. You will be surprised what people bluff with when an Ace comes out.

Hand 2: Why are you checking here? You are heads up and you have TP, you have to bet this, Checking means you hate money.

Hand 3: I would bet out here. I don't like the check, and i hate the fold.

Of course it is read dependent and can change depending on the number of opponents in the hand, but 2nd pair is a good hand in 6-max and worth betting, let alone TP.

Hand 1: I play that the same way. I don't bet the river there, but I think most people do. My thinking is what is calling my bet, busted draws won't, made hands will, and what made hands do I beat. I may be playing this too weak, any reasons why you should bet this river?

Hand 2: What about the turn card made you scared? You have one caller from the flop, on a board that has several draws. Why does the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] all of a sudden make you think you don't have the best hand?

Hand 3: Have to bet this flop. You have top pair and medium kicker. No raises preflop, what is going to have you beat here? (JT, QJ) most other hands would probably have been raised (though I don't know the texture of your table) If your bet is raised then I call and check/fold the turn UI.

[brettbrettr]

I'm betting all of these, everytime.

Hand 1, you should bet b/c you might get a call from a 9 that was on a draw, etc.

Hand 2&gt; OMG, man, bet the turn. For consistency, bet the bloody river. Kickers and much less important in a 4 handed game. Don't think too much of that statement, but, please, bet top pair until someone tells you not to.

Hand 3: BETTTTTT!

[mosuavea]

[ QUOTE ]
In every spot where you checked, I bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this

In games where you're unlikely to be bluff-raised/CR-bluffed (i.e. loose-passive), I think you should be betting in every spot you checked, particularly with TP in a SH game.

[PygmyHero]

Great! Thanks for the responses everyone. Based on the consensus, I have to conclude that I'm undervaluing TPMK and TPNK, and thus playing them too passively.

I am very accustomed to full ring, where if I get action on these sorts of hands, it typically means I am dominated. I am still struggling to adjust my thinking to shorthanded play, so I appreciate your help.

[Koss]

The only check that didn't make me sick was the first one. Even then I bet it.

In the 2nd hand, do you really want to give a 9 or a diamond draw a free card?!?!

The 3rd hand was extremely weak. The only reason I check this flop is to check/raise a LP bettor. As it was I think I call the flop and bet a safe turn card. If the turn card makes things uglier then you can consider a check/fold.

*grunch*

Hand 1: Bet the river, they probably have small pairs and/or missed FD. You can probably fold to a checkraise, but I'd have to think about it for a sec before mucking.

Hand 2: Bet at least the turn, make him pay if hes drawing. If you get raised, then I'd slow down. I'd either fold to the turn raise or call and check/call the river unless a scary card fell (i.e. paint), upon which I'd check/fold.

Hand 3: You have to bet to see where you stand. If you get raised, then you can get away from the hand. Your hand is good here a lot of the time, people like to bet their straight draws and I think you'll see that a lot here. And if they call your lead with overcards, that is less correct than checking behind after you wuss out with top pair. 6:1 is a lot worse than oo:1 odds.

Steve