did i overplay my trips in this huge pot?

Adam22 · #1 11-14-2005, 03:46 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (23.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 29.20 BB

thesharpie · #2 11-14-2005, 03:57 AM

Yes. I'd put him on 99 once he 3 bets the turn. The turn isn't that bad since you're risking 1 to win 2, although I still think you have a slight equity defecit here, and you might get check/raised on the river. The river is pretty awful, he's more likely to have 99 than AA/KK here (or whatever random stuff a maniac might hold) and you're missing out on the overcall by raising plus losing 2 bets when behind.

manpower · #3 11-14-2005, 03:59 AM

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Yes. I'd put him on 99 once he 3 bets the turn. The turn isn't that bad since you're risking 1 to win 2, although I still think you have a slight equity defecit here, and you might get check/raised on the river. The river is pretty awful, he's more likely to have 99 than AA/KK here (or whatever random stuff a maniac might hold) and you're missing out on the overcall by raising plus losing 2 bets when behind.

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Indeed, the turn threebet is exactly where i go into calldown mode.

#4 11-14-2005, 04:06 AM

You over did it, You played your hand instead of playing your opponent's hand. Lets try to figure out what the villain has, first lets recognize that if the villain had a top pair hand like KQ he probably would bet the flop as opposed to checkraising to trap the other guy in the hand, with top pair he would want you to raise and eliminate the other opponent, yet the villain checkraised the flop with you and the other guy already committed for one small bet, this means that the villain doesnt care about eliminating anyone, so rule out all top pair type hands for villain. This means the villain can only have two hand types, either a big draw like JdTd,KdJd,KdTd or a big hand like QQ or 99, When the villain caps the flop he is basically letting you know that he has one of these 5 hands, When the top card pairs on the turn and he bets and you raise and he 3bets it, you should now realize that the villain cannot have a hand like JdTd,KdJd, or KdTd, and he cannot have QQ since there are already 3 Queens accounted for, so the villains hand is revealed, he has 99 for nine full, so you should not cap the turn, since all you have now is a crying call on the turn and river. If an Ace or a 3 hits the river then you can go crazy again. Also, my read on the villain's hand is based on the assumption that the villain plays well/logical postflop, if the villain does not match this description then he can still have all kinds of hands, but if he is logical then he can only have 99. Heres how I wouldve played the hand, I wouldve bet the flop, 3bet the checkraise,call the cap,raise the turn and just call down unless I improve on the river.

Adam22 · #5 11-14-2005, 04:06 AM

i think i was just so hypnotized by how good looking top pair and a flush draw was that i couldnt grasp he had the one logical hand that beat me

olavfo · #6 11-14-2005, 04:19 AM

When MP2 3-bets you on the turn, it's hard to imagine he could have anything else than: AA (3), KK (6), 99 (3), AQ (3), Q9 (3)

18 combos in total (although AA/KK seem less likely after the turn 3-bet, and Q9 seems less likely given the preflopraise). We beat 9 (AA, KK), lose to 6 (99, Q9) and have a freeroll against the last 3 (AQ).

Based on this quick and dirty hand analysis, I don't think it will do us much good to keep raising after the turn 3-bet, especially since the hands we beat now seem a tad unlikely.

I would call down.

einbert · #7 11-14-2005, 05:49 AM

In a threeway pot I easily cap the turn.

Whether to raise the river is probably close. A PFR stat for this guy could help the decision. But it looks like you'll see an overplayed AA/KK/KQ a lot here. I probably play it the same against unknows.

If you title your posts "Did I overplay....?" or "Am I missing bets...?" you are bound to get results oriented replies. You might as well put "well I lost to 99" in your original post. And the people in this forum tend to be EXTREMELY results oriented, as you can tell by their replies in this thread. You'll get much better replies if you make no hint of the results.

shant · #8 11-14-2005, 06:00 AM

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You'll get much better replies if you make no hint of the results.

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I agree it's a pretty routine turn cap, and I think he's getting the replies he is because they can see he was 3-bet on the river. A better post would have been to stop the river action at your decision and ask for advice there.

Adam22 · #9 11-14-2005, 07:03 AM

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You'll get much better replies if you make no hint of the results.

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I agree it's a pretty routine turn cap, and I think he's getting the replies he is because they can see he was 3-bet on the river. A better post would have been to stop the river action at your decision and ask for advice there.

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yeah point taken. i actually realized this as i looked at my two threads for the night.

thesharpie · #10 11-14-2005, 09:45 AM

For some reason I forgot to include stuff like KQ and QJs in his range when I looked over the hand, I don't think it was because I, personally, was being results oriented. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Now obviously the turn cap is perfect, and I think he'll often 3 bet KQ on the river so you don't have to worry about that 2 to 1 [censored]. You would often be missing out on the overcall, but the overcaller might not be planning on overcalling anyway, and most of the time you gain 2 bets when the PFRer carries on overplaying his hand.