TPTK ON SAME SUIT FLOP

#1 11-13-2005, 07:39 PM

no read on any players, i had just started playing at that table.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB calls, CO folds.

River: (12.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

should i have waited for the turn to raise? i'm thinking that this way i made someone fold a hand that could have made 2 pair or better on the turn plus i got some info from the original bettor who could have rr the turn with a big flopped hand and it would have been more costly.

#2 11-13-2005, 07:55 PM

I think it looks just fine. What was the action on the river?

Dagger78 · #3 11-13-2005, 07:56 PM

I think you learn alot more by seeing who calls 2 cold on the flop here than you do than waiting to raise the turn to protect your hand. You can't protect your hand from a 1 card flush, but alot of players will fold a small heart for 2 bets, but might call for 1.

I think you played the hand well. I think you can value be the river as the BB has either a busted blush draw or weak Q(if he's a typical player) and you'll win a bet most of the times he calls.

silkyslim · #4 11-13-2005, 08:36 PM

nh. HEPFAP says dont slowplay your holdings on a monotone flop. An argument could be made for waiting for a non- [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and the bigger bet to protect but you got perfect position now and Co might not bet for you on the turn. Fold out some villains with non-flush outs as well. What happened to the river/

W. Deranged · #5 11-13-2005, 09:05 PM

My thought is this:

1. You are never protecting against a flush draw.

2. If a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits you are losing this hand, period. Attempting to fold out medium [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s is silly because the odds you are up against a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A or facecard is so high.

3. Hands that don't have flush draws have like 3 outs against you, and so might be marginally correct in calling one bet behind you. BUT, with the monotone flop, hands like KJo (without a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) likely will fold the flop anyway because the board is so scary and even oblivious players realize that chasing on monotone boards is silly.

4. A non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn GREATLY increases your equity here. We get much better value from a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw charging them 1 SB on the flop and 2 BB on a blank turn rather than charging 2 SB on the flop (when a big heart draw may actually have an equity edge against the field) and 1 BB on the turn.

5. We can simply fold a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn while only having invested 1 SB.

So it seems to me that waiting to raise the turn is significantly better here.

#6 11-14-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So it seems to me that waiting to raise the turn is significantly better here.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a strong possibility he won't get another chance to raise. CO might not bet the turn.

#7 11-14-2005, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So it seems to me that waiting to raise the turn is significantly better here.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a strong possibility he won't get another chance to raise. CO might not bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what i was thinking, many players bet the flop in a multipot but then check when they see several callers. or maybe he was value betting his flush draw, i had no guarantees he'd bet it again(actually he folded on the turn). on the river the BB checks, i bet and he folds...no flush for him [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

#8 11-14-2005, 08:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
many players bet the flop in a multipot but then check when they see several callers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, true. Not many players have the guts to bet into a huge field - including a preflop raiser - twice. Let alone with a lone [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which is what I'd put CO on. It sucks getting raised on the expensive street on a draw with one card to come, so I'd say that most players check the turn here unless they flopped a flush.

I'd make the flush chasers pay through their noses on the flop. It's a perfect opportunity to face the field with a double bet. Take their money while you still think you're ahead.