Value betting question - with hands

Skuzzy · #1 11-03-2005, 05:38 AM

Still trying to get a 'feel' for value betting situations in limit play. Anyway these two hands were played in the same orbit. On the first hand I value bet 2nd pair on the river against a weak calling station type who just refuses to fold on the end even with nothing but Jack high. On the second I choose to check behind against a similar opponent mostly because the board made a 1 card str8 possible. Is this OK? My hand was stronger in the 2nd example but my feeling was the threat of a raise (even a bluff raise) was greater.

Hand 1:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (2.66 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (2.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB

Hand 2:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (2.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (4.66 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB

cold_cash · #2 11-03-2005, 05:48 AM

In hand 1 if the guy is as bad as you say I would say bet the turn also, unless he's so passive you're planning a check/fold. (If you're going to check/fold, check; if you're going to check/call, bet.)

You're not getting bluff raised by this opponent if your read is right, but he's likely to call with plenty of worse hands. Bet and fold, I say. (I'm also not a big fan of this limp.)

Skuzzy · #3 11-03-2005, 06:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(I'm also not a big fan of this limp.)

[/ QUOTE ] advocating instead .........?

I dont think I'll be betting Ace high with any confidence even with gut shot outs. Why is this a good play here?

I agree on hand 2, I'd just been outdrawn by a 2 outer in the previous hand so I think i was reacting a little to that here too.

Aaron_ · #4 11-03-2005, 06:21 AM

Comments on hand 1: In small pots, I rarely try anything funny against weak and passive opponents. It's probably not worth the bet if you get called down UI.

Easy bet on the river given your read in hand 2

#5 11-03-2005, 06:56 AM

Hand 1: I always make the continuation bet here heads up. It's likely you still have the best hand, and every bet that goes in is still for value. There's no point in giving free cards to outdraw you. In a more aggressive game, you're opening yourself up to being pushed off of the best hand.

Hand 2: Preflop doesn't matter too much, but I prefer to raise to isolate the limper and for increased fold equity. The way it played out, definitely value bet the river. Given the board on the flop, and the turn call, it's more likely you're being called down by a weak T or 8 that'll pay off one more bet at showdown. It's also pretty unlikely you'll be CR-bluffed given the description of the villain.

#6 11-03-2005, 07:53 AM

Hand 1--I dont like the check on the flop.
Hand 2--I would have bet the river. Hey skuzzy, this is a good hand where you could put Hero??? on the river. Next time do that, I know I have problems with these kind of hands.

Webster · #7 11-03-2005, 08:14 AM

Hand #1 I betting the flop, turn AND river. He is also on a drawing hand and if he does not come back at you, BAM!

Hand #2 I'm raising the flop, all you have is one limper.

On the flop you have the a real good hand - better to hit the T then the Q actually - you can still improve AND havethe best hand already.

Check the river???? bad boy!

Stealthy · #8 11-03-2005, 08:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1 I betting the flop, turn AND river. He is also on a drawing hand and if he does not come back at you, BAM!

Hand #2 I'm raising the flop, all you have is one limper.

On the flop you have the a real good hand - better to hit the T then the Q actually - you can still improve AND havethe best hand already.

Check the river???? bad boy!

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

@bsolute_luck · #9 11-03-2005, 10:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2 I'm raising the preflop, all you have is one limper

[/ QUOTE ]

i think that's what you meant and if not, it should be done anyways.

car ramrod · #10 11-03-2005, 11:53 AM

hand 2 bet that river. Don't limp with that hand pf, a raise is better.

hand 1 I would lead the flop.