6M: Middle-pair on a Coordinated Board

#1 10-26-2005, 06:59 AM

BB was loose and extremely short-stacked. When he bet on the river he had 40cents remaining.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Should I have bet the flop? I checked to see how much action there would be, and to possibly C/R isolate a late position bettor.

Should I be folding the turn? There's two possible flush draws out there and hitting my jack gives a straight to anyone with a 9. During the hand, I called without realizing there were two flush draw possibilities. I thought I had enough to continue with my gutshot outs and trip outs. In retrospect, I'm thinking I should have folded on this turn.

My initial plan on the river was to fold unimproved. I wasn't going to overcall with mid-pair jack kicker. When MP folded, I thought more about BB's betting. He's extremely short-stacked, so he doesn't really need a queen here. I've seen plenty of short-stacks bet and raise flush/straight draws hoping to put themselves all-in, and they have more fold equity that way. I reluctantly called because it's a big pot and there's some doubt in my mind he has me beat 85% of the time here.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

AlmightyJay · #2 10-26-2005, 07:09 AM

I'm not sure about this. You're getting 7:1 on the flop call, which is enough to call for a 5-out draw if you know you don't need to call a turn bet. You don't know that; furthermore, your J outs have to be extremely diminished because they put a 4-straight on the board. I don't know that I'd count them for any more than one full out. And 7:1 is definitely not enough for a three out draw. I think I'd fold on the flop.

lautzutao · #3 10-26-2005, 07:13 AM

I think you should have c/f this on the flop. MAYBE I peel one, but the reverse implied odd gods are at work here methinks.

#4 10-26-2005, 07:14 AM

I do have a gutshot as well...

lautzutao · #5 10-26-2005, 07:23 AM

You have a gutshot that might not be good because one of your outs also completes a flush draw. And even if your gutshot comes in on the turn you can lose on the river to the flush.

#6 10-26-2005, 07:29 AM

Good point. I'm starting to think folding the flop might be best due to the reverse implied odds. There's a good chance one of them is sticking around with the club draw on the flop, so my J, T, and 9 outs all have to be discounted somewhat.

kapw7 · #7 10-26-2005, 07:46 AM

You played it fine:
Flop+turn: MP and gutshot
River: I never fold this heads-up

Aaron W. · #8 10-26-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB was loose and extremely short-stacked. When he bet on the river he had 40cents remaining.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop. Do you really give BB or the two limpers (in a 5-handed game) credit for holding a queen?

deception5 · #9 10-26-2005, 02:50 PM

I lead this flop. There's an excellent chance you have the best hand and if not you have several outs to improve.

TomBrooks · #10 10-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Bet the flop. In 6 max, pretend the high card on the board is a low card. On this flop, play it like you have top pair, decent kicker. Hand plays differently after that, but if raised I consider it might be a flush or straight draw, maybe with a ten like you or an eight. Could be a Queen, but I don't assume so.