THE BIZARRE LAS VEGAS INCIDENT-- a must read.

Tyler Durden · #1 06-05-2003, 05:09 PM

I went to Vegas last week for the first time. I was playing in the Bellagio 8-16 game when this occurred:

I was minding my own business, not involved in the hand and kinda bored. I tune back into the world for the river action:

The board contains four clubs, including the Q <img src="/forums/images/icons/club.gif" alt="" /> and J <img src="/forums/images/icons/club.gif" alt="" />.

A man at the opposite end of the table is first to act, and he bets all-in with $3. The player to my immediate left, a good aggressive local named Chris, is his sole opponent in the hand. Chris gets an agonized look on his face and flips his hand over: QJo for top two pair. He hasn't decided what to do. To many, including me, this is an easy call--the pot was laying him about 33 to 1.

So Chris is deciding whether or not to call, and he says something like "It's not worth $3." Another guy says "Call, it's only three dollars." Then Chris says "if someone wants to call the $3 for me, they can have the pot." He still hadn't acted.

So I think, what the hell, I'm kinda bored, it's my last night, I'm trying to have fun and I pick up three blue chips and throw them into the pot. The dealer says "there's a call (i'm unsure if she knew where the call came from). The all-in bettor throws his hand into the muck as soon as the dealer announces the call. Chris still hasn't acted.

The dealer pushes the pot to me.

I see all the chips in front of me and I start laughing. I'm like "uhh, this is interesting." I tell Chris and the dealer that I can't take the pot. Then the pot gets pushed to Chris. The all-in bettor is aware of all that is happening but, for some reason, he hasn't said a word. Finally I say "we need a decision from the floor." The floor, Dave, comes over. The dealer says "well it's over now but...". And Dave says "it's over? well then just play poker" and tries to walk away. We're like "wait, we need a ruling." He listens to the story from Chris and the dealer. Dave calls the poker supervisor, Suzy, out to make a decision. Chris says a mucked hand can't take the pot. he's right. The all-in bettor speaks up: "The dealer said I had been called."

he's right too. and he was called by someone NOT IN THE HAND

murky situation. Chris never acted on the river. Remember, his hand was turned face up.

what's a proper ruling? Who gets the pot? The all-in bettor, Chris, or me?

results later.

Homer · #2 06-05-2003, 05:26 PM

The all-in bettor. Isn't Chris's hand dead when he turns it face up?

-- Homer

Tyler Durden · #3 06-05-2003, 05:30 PM

No. Many cardrooms, including the Taj and Trop in AC, do not consider a hand dead if it is turned up. This only applies in tournament play.

Vehn · #4 06-05-2003, 05:34 PM

Why did you say "I can't take the pot" and then be the only one to ask for a decision when everyone else was happy with Chris taking it? Ask for your $3 back and play cards.

Since the all-in better mucked his hand first it should be Chris' pot anyways. If the all-in better hypothetically bet the river, then mucked his hand before Chris acted (and you didn't throw in $3), the pot would be Chris' then too obviously.

Homer: exposed hands are not dead when heads up on the end like this. He can still call/raise/fold.

dirty_dan · #5 06-05-2003, 05:41 PM

This is certainly a different kind of "So I was just in Vegas for my first time and..." story. I have no idea who should have won but I would have loved to be there when it happened.

Inthacup · #6 06-05-2003, 05:41 PM

Why you didn't take the pot is beyond me. Did you expect to get your $3 back if it got pushed to Johnny All-in? If not then why decline the pot?

Play Tight · #7 06-05-2003, 05:42 PM

I'm not sure of the proper ruling for this hand. But I do know that in my local game a hand is not dead until it hits the muck.

I also make sure to ask the dealer to "kill" the hand before showing if I want to see what I was called down with. I learned this the tough way when I asked to see a hand and the dealer turned over a straight to beat my shown trips. The player had misread the board and actually got the pot. I asked for a floor ruling and was told that a hand is not "dead" until the player fails to call a bet, or the dealer "kills" it in the muck pile.

Barry · #8 06-05-2003, 05:51 PM

I was there...

and it was quite fun. Tyler can tell how it came out, but everybody was talking about it for the rest of the night. I had to invoke the bad beat story rule!

Tyler Durden · #9 06-05-2003, 06:32 PM

I think we all wanted the ruling, I was just the first to ask for one.

I asked for the floor b/c I knew the pot wasn't really mine, so I wanted a fair ruling.

richie · #10 06-05-2003, 07:06 PM

well, I think the all-in bettor should receive the pot. This is not based on cardroom rules per se, but just my opinion. The all-in bettor made a bluff at the pot, Chris didn't want to "waste" $3 calling a $100 pot, that's his problem. The all-in bettor is playing heads up vs. Chris, not the ENTIRE table. What right do you have to enter in the hand? And why isn't the dealer paying attention? This is why I do not enjoy playing live anymore, there's too much BSing going around. In my opinion, you cost this guy a $100 pot, and if it was you in that situation, I don't think you would be terribly happy with what happened. Not criticizing you really, just that cardrooms allow situations like these to occur. To me, Chris is angle shooting, and the house is allowing it. Why does the all-in bettor have to bluff the entire table to win the pot when he is heads-up? Just my opinion on cardrooms and dealers in particular.