SB QTo calling an all-in (PP $10+$1)

#1 10-21-2005, 04:49 AM

Would like some advice on this please.
1. I called before the flop due to the odds despite QTo not being great.
2. I then bet after the flop because I had a pair of tens.
I'm thinking that maybe with the amount of people in the hand and the fact that MP3 could have gone all in, that I should have just checked? Would that have been better?
3. If I had checked and he had gone all in, would anyone have called this anyway?
Thanks.
Hand below:
($10 + $1) 50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL)
Table Table 67104 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: MP1 (1365)
Seat 2: MP2 (403)
Seat 3: MP3 (457)
Seat 4: CO (270)
Seat 5: Hero (1110)
Seat 6: BB (915)
Seat 7: UTG (970)
Seat 8: UTG+1 (1775)
Seat 9: UTG+2 (735)
Hero posts small blind (25)
BB posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Qs, Th ]
UTG calls (50)
UTG+1 calls (50)
UTG+2 folds.
MP1 folds.
MP2 folds.
MP3 calls (50)
CO folds.
Hero calls (25)
BB checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, 6s, Kd ]
Hero bets (100)
BB folds.
UTG folds.
UTG+1 folds.
MP3 raises (407) to 407
MP3 is all-In.
Hero calls (307)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Js ]
Creating Main Pot with $1064 with MP3
Summary below in white:

** Summary **
Main Pot: 1064 |
Board: [ Ts 6s Kd 4d Js ]
MP1 balance 1365, didn't bet (folded)
MP2 balance 403, didn't bet (folded)
MP3 balance 1064, bet 457, collected 1064, net +607 [ Jh Ks ] [ two pairs, kings and jacks -- Ks,Kd,Jh,Js,Ts ]
CO balance 270, didn't bet (folded)
Hero balance 653, lost 457 [ Qs Th ] [ a pair of tens -- Kd,Qs,Js,Th,Ts ]
BB balance 865, lost 50 (folded)
UTG balance 920, lost 50 (folded)
UTG+1 balance 1725, lost 50 (folded)
UTG+2 balance 735, didn't bet (folded)

tigerite · #2 10-21-2005, 05:06 AM

Why bet out with 2nd pair on a K high flop? Really?

I would probably even fold preflop, but if I had got to this position, check/fold, christ man there's how many people in the pot? You think one won't have a King? How likely is that really when people at the $10s love their face cards and aces?

Scuba Chuck · #3 10-21-2005, 05:14 AM

1. I called before the flop due to the odds despite QTo not being great.
 Nothing wrong here. I will add my postflop strategy: I would intend to move forward with this hand if I hit the flop hard, otherwise, I'm check-folding. 

2. I then bet after the flop because I had a pair of tens.
I'm thinking that maybe with the amount of people in the hand and the fact that MP3 could have gone all in, that I should have just checked? Would that have been better?
 Repeat after me. "I am a fish."

Good now that's over. Nothing wrong with admitting it. Everyone starts somewhere. Let's review. "I am here on 2+2 because I want to become a better than average poker player. In order to do that, I know that playing middle pair is a fishy strategy. I will never do that again. Next time I will check, and maybe, it will check-through, and on the turn, I may improve, or maybe I can see the river for free if I check again on the turn. But in the end, my hand is very very weak on this flop." 

3. If I had checked and he had gone all in, would anyone have called this anyway?

 See my answer above.

#4 10-21-2005, 05:24 AM

Ok, understood !
Out of interest, if there had only been 2 players after the flop, would you have bet this or do you still work rigidly to the never bet middle pair rule ?

Scuba Chuck · #5 10-21-2005, 05:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, understood !
Out of interest, if there had only been 2 players after the flop, would you have bet this or do you still work rigidly to the never bet middle pair rule ?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you gain by betting out, that you couldn't gain by checking?

#6 10-21-2005, 05:30 AM

In a 2 player hand, the chance to take the pot down right there? If you check then they'll bet and you won't know whether it's because they have a hand or are just betting to try to wni the pot.

tigerite · #7 10-21-2005, 05:31 AM

You do not have to win every pot to win a tournament, you know.

Scuba Chuck · #8 10-21-2005, 05:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In a 2 player hand, the chance to take the pot down right there? If you check then they'll bet and you won't know whether it's because they have a hand or are just betting to try to wni the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your objective?

#9 10-21-2005, 05:42 AM

Well, to get ITM or win is what it should be. I was probably too focused on winning that pot. Looking back at it, I would have still had 1100 chips if I'd check-folded.

Scuba Chuck · #10 10-21-2005, 05:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, to get ITM or win is what it should be. I was probably too focused on winning that pot. Looking back at it, I would have still had 1100 chips if I'd check-folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are thinking straight young grasshopper.