$11s: back to basics

liucipher · #1 10-20-2005, 06:47 PM

Want to plug my leaks - afraid I may be playing too weakly. More than "fold/bet" advice, I'm looking to confirm the reasoning.

1.) out of position + only semi-strong holding + crowded pot + blinds are still low = fold?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t785)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t790)
Button (t980)
Hero (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t660)
UTG+2 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 3 folds, MP3 calls t15, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t87.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets t40, CO folds, Button folds, Hero ???

2.) I've been following AleoMagus advice to look for sets w/ TT-. But I have position and I've seen some posts advocating TT raises in that situation. Weak?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t785)
MP2 (t875)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t965)
Hero (t770)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t645)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls t15, 2 folds, CO calls t15, Hero ???

pineapple888 · #2 10-20-2005, 07:23 PM

In 1., I'm folding. Maybe preflop, if I'm busy on other tables. This hand is just unplayable unless you hit two pair or a set (and you can still go broke with a set of aces).

In 2., I'm calling because of the set value.

Raising either wins you a small pot or often gets you into difficult post-flop situations, because now you have too much invested to let it go with no set and, say, one overcard. You can too easily bleed chips away.

As the blinds rise, this equation changes, and you play the hand faster pre-flop.

#3 10-20-2005, 07:24 PM

Hand #1: I fold pre-flop, specifically to avoid situations like this. Having said that, I probably call here because you're closing the action, and then re-evaluate on the turn, hoping for a free card and folding to a decent bet. I don't think folding is terrible, but if you fold to this flop, you might as well fold pre-flop.

Hand #2: With the deeper stacks at Stars, I'd definitely raise here. But at Party, I probably call and play for set value. I don't think a raise is terrible, but I tend to get myself in trouble c-betting, so I've been limping hands like this more often, looking for good flops.

tigerite · #4 10-20-2005, 08:57 PM

Fold for 5 chips?! Are you kidding??

FWIW it's close between fold and call on the flop, for me. I'd probably let it go but I wouldn't hate to call then lead the turn.

Second one.. just call.

pineapple888 · #5 10-20-2005, 09:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold for 5 chips?! Are you kidding??

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold with 94o for 5 chips, and I'd rather play that hand than this one multi-way.

tigerite · #6 10-20-2005, 09:08 PM

Unbelievable.. well ok fold for 5 chips if you suck at post flop play I guess.. I never would fold for 5 chips with 94o in this situation.

liucipher · #7 10-20-2005, 09:13 PM

Am I really less than 11:1 to flop 2 pair or better? I only completed with the hopes of winning the lotto against AK or something.

In terms of that hand, I was more curious if I should lead out and see where I stand, because I think stronger aces reraise me.

SCfuji · #8 10-20-2005, 09:21 PM

hand 1 complete is cool
call the flop donk 1/2 pot on turn/fold to a push

hand 2 raise to t60ish.

pineapple888 · #9 10-20-2005, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unbelievable.. well ok fold for 5 chips if you suck at post flop play I guess.. I never would fold for 5 chips with 94o in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh. More attitude for no reason. Grow up.

Look up "reverse implied odds" if you really want to learn something. Add in 5 other tables, and maybe you'll see why it's not at all crystal clear to call, as you seem to think.

psyduck · #10 10-20-2005, 09:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unbelievable.. well ok fold for 5 chips if you suck at post flop play I guess.. I never would fold for 5 chips with 94o in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh. More attitude for no reason. Grow up.

Look up "reverse implied odds" if you really want to learn something. Add in 5 other tables, and maybe you'll see why it's not at all crystal clear to call, as you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you retarded? You're getting like 20:1 to complete, and that's not even factoring in implied odds. I complete with ANY TWO.

We've been through this before.