So I just read TJ Cloutier's book

[Bandgeek]

The basic idea I got from the book was this
AA and KK are ok to play. You can raise with QQ but you have to fold to a reraise.

Everything else is garbage pretty much.

Maybe I need to read it again but this seemed to be the basic premise of the book. In the example hands were 10 different ways to play AA and KK but that was about it.

I do like his "if you don't flop it fold it" strategy for playing AK, but otherwise it seems the strategy is way too tight to be successful with since you don't get these hands often enough.

What was your take on the book?

[vulturesrow]

Now that youve read it you can throw it away? How bad is it you say? I keep pretty much every book I buy, just because I like books. This one got donated to the library. The only reason it didnt get shitcanned is because I am hoping some fish picks itup. It wont make him aggro for sure but I'll win lots of small pots off him. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You want to get better at NL? Read this forum lots, post hands, and respond to hand posts.

[afreeman]

I read it too, and came to largely the same conclusion.

While I don't think that it offers bad advice, it is clearly geared to the new player, attempting to guide them to a fairly weak-tight strategy. While that isn't ideal over the long-run, it is probably the best approach for a new player, until they get enough experience to branch out. You probably won't lose money following Cloutier's advice, though you won't make anything either.

Unfortunately, the only really good NL book that I have found is "Harrington on Hold'em" and even much of that is geared toward tourny play.

I also read "Mastering No-Limit Hold'em" by Fox and Harker. Its not bad (sort of picks up where Cloutier's book leaves off), but its still pretty thin on theory and a bit simplistic in its examples.

Probably the best book overall is "Theory of Poker". Its dense and the prose is a bit drab at times, but it covers everything and does it well.

Finally, you might try taking this topic over to the books forum. While I think its relevant here (since its NL-specific), that forum might have more useful commentary for you.

I would say use it as toilet paper, but the pages are a little rough maybe. You don't want to have paper cuts down there.

[Skuzzy]

The one sub-titled "The Bible to Winning Hold'em Tournaments and Cash Games" ? I'm sure I see devotees out there every day on VPIP 6% and PFR 2% - hallelujah! (How do you spell that?)

It's been awhile since I read the book, and I remember it being fairly poorly organized and written. Having said that, Cloutier basic philosophy is to stay out of trouble. And I think for the beginner or for the SSNL player that idea is pretty important.

I'm sure it's fun beating your fists agaisnt your chests and mocking what an idiot Cloutier is, but I think we must remember another great poker player's maxim.

"bluffing = losing money." -- TheWorstPlayer

Keeping yourself out of bad situations is probably the most important thing in NL above all else. That's what Cloutier tries to hammer home (apparently unsuccessfully).

[vulturesrow]

Well said, I meant to bring this up in my post. But honestly, its just not that great a book for a NL beginner.

[djoyce003]

it didn't seem that bad to me...maybe i'm just different, but this is a TOURNAMENT book, not a cash game book, despite the fact that it advertises itself as a book for both. It isn't, and as a tournament book goes, it isn't bad. It's good enough to make a bad player do decent in a tournament, which is probably it's basic premise anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
it didn't seem that bad to me...maybe i'm just different, but this is a TOURNAMENT book, not a cash game book, despite the fact that it advertises itself as a book for both. It isn't, and as a tournament book goes, it isn't bad. It's good enough to make a bad player do decent in a tournament, which is probably it's basic premise anyway.

[/ QUOTE ] But - HoHE is good enough to make a bad player actually money in a tournament.

Think of these books as starting hands. Harrington, you have KK in late position. Cloutier's book is Q7o UTG. Sure, both hands COULD win... but one has a much better chance.

[subzero]

[ QUOTE ]
Think of these books as starting hands. . . . Cloutier's book is Q7o UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]
Insta-fold preflop! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]