$15+1 turbo - AKo vs raise and call

housenuts · #1 10-14-2005, 12:41 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t1775)
CO (t1420)
Hero (t1415)
SB (t1850)
BB (t220)
UTG (t1240)
UTG+1 (t1555)
MP1 (t2900)
MP2 (t1125)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t150, 1 fold, CO calls t150, Hero ?

Can I push here or should I wait and see a flop?

pineapple888 · #2 10-14-2005, 12:48 PM

I push here because I don't want to invite the blinds into the hand. Four or five people in a pot gives you poor reverse implied odds with AK. I just want to take it down now if possible.

#3 10-14-2005, 12:53 PM

push it, and quick too. they are probably folding, giving you a quite confortable T1800 stack, and youre rarely behind if someone calls.

this is very often the case with AK, and hence it is a good preflop pushing hand.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #4 10-14-2005, 12:56 PM

I would call and fold if you don't improve... AK gets you into a lot of trouble... 2 people interested in pot, one or both are likely to call if you push pf. You're probably up against an Ax and a pocket pair... no need to gamble this early in tourney

Plus you have position post flop so if it is checked to you you might even try a continuation bet of t150 if rags flop.

The Yugoslavian · #5 10-14-2005, 01:01 PM

Errmm...just push here, there is t375 (more than 1/3 of your stack) in the middle, you have tons of FE and even when called you fare well vs. your opponents' calling range.

Calling and then folding 2/3 of the flops is a big mistake...especially since you won't necessarily get paid off when you do hit.

In a smaller pot I like calling.

Yugoslav

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #6 10-14-2005, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I push here because I don't want to invite the blinds into the hand. Four or five people in a pot gives you poor reverse implied odds with AK. I just want to take it down now if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, AK is great multi way b/c you get good pot odds. I think you're behind if you push here b/c there are 2 opponents and you will need to get lucky. Blinds are not calling unless they have a hand.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #7 10-14-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Errmm...just push here, there is t375 (more than 1/3 of your stack) in the middle, you have tons of FE and even when called you fare well vs. your opponents' calling range.

Calling and then folding 2/3 of the flops is a big mistake...especially since you won't necessarily get paid off when you do hit.

In a smaller pot I like calling.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

AK is my nemesis. The times I push and lose have to be equal to the times I call and miss flop. When I miss flop I am still alive to keep playing. AK is worse than 22, yet treated like AA-QQ... I don't know... can't figure out how to play AK early at early levels... I had a recent stretch were 10 out of 20 games were lost w/ AK

pineapple888 · #8 10-14-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I push here because I don't want to invite the blinds into the hand. Four or five people in a pot gives you poor reverse implied odds with AK. I just want to take it down now if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, AK is great multi way b/c you get good pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, like when AJ8 falls, and one opponent has a set of eights, and the other has two-pair AJ, and the third has a straight draw, and the fourth has a flush draw.

Obviously this is extreme, but it's real, real easy to go broke with AK in a multi-way pot when you hit.

[ QUOTE ]

I think you're behind if you push here b/c there are 2 opponents and you will need to get lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Luck is part of poker, last I checked. To steal from your other reply:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1278594
pokenum -h ad kc - js jh - ah qs
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Ad 465971 33.99 885662 64.61 19121 1.39 0.346
Js Jh 609928 44.50 756326 55.18 4500 0.33 0.446
Qs Ah 275734 20.12 1075899 78.49 19121 1.39 0.208

You're just about 1/3 to triple up *if* they both call. Add in your fold equity, things are looking fine.

[ QUOTE ]

Blinds are not calling unless they have a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call, you are pricing them in to call with marginal hands like low pairs and suited connectors. Exactly what you *don't* want with AK in a multiway pot.

pineapple888 · #9 10-14-2005, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Errmm...just push here, there is t375 (more than 1/3 of your stack) in the middle, you have tons of FE and even when called you fare well vs. your opponents' calling range.

Calling and then folding 2/3 of the flops is a big mistake...especially since you won't necessarily get paid off when you do hit.

In a smaller pot I like calling.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

AK is my nemesis. The times I push and lose have to be equal to the times I call and miss flop. When I miss flop I am still alive to keep playing. AK is worse than 22, yet treated like AA-QQ... I don't know... can't figure out how to play AK early at early levels... I had a recent stretch were 10 out of 20 games were lost w/ AK

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you're in good company. T.J. Cloutier says it's the biggest decision hand in poker. There are many subtleties. You just have to try to think it through, in any given situation.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #10 10-14-2005, 01:27 PM

I should clarify, AK is good for its str8 and flush potential, not tptk...