Top pair/top kicker with a three-flush on board

#1 10-13-2005, 08:47 PM

Note: I am brand new to posting, so I apologize if I don't follow standard format, but I will do the best I can. (And any suggestions on how I can make my posts clearer in the future would be appreciated too.)

The game is a live 2/4 limit game. The players are generally loose/passive calling stations.

I am on the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Four players limp. I raise. The BB and all limpers call. Six players to the flop (12.5 small bets).

The flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Everyone checks to me. I check!!! My reasoning went as follows: Against this many players, I could already be up against a made flush. If so, I obviously save money by checking. If, however, I am not already up against a made flush, I do not risk much by slowplaying my top pair and giving a free card, for the following reasons:
1. I do not fear a fourth heart falling (obviously, I would welcome it because I have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]).
2. Given the disconnected nature of the board (Q-7-2), there is no turn card that could make someone a straight.
3. There are very few overcards to my pair of queens that I fear. I don't fear an ace because it would make me two pair. And I don't fear the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] because it would make me a flush. Thus, the only overcards that would bother me are the three non-heart kings.

Since I did not fear many free cards, I decided to check in case I was against a flush. I can't help thinking, though, that I made a big mistake. Any thoughts?

Borodog · #2 10-13-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is Q 7 2 . Everyone checks to me. I check!!! My reasoning went as follows: [b]I hate money!

[/ QUOTE ]

Harv72b · #3 10-13-2005, 08:53 PM

Even if you're up against a made flush, you have 7 outs to a win (not including the unlikely runner runner full house). Basically, you got your dream flop with AQo...TPTK + nut flush draw. You have to bet this for value...if someone made a baby flush, good for them. OTOH, if anyone else has even 1 (lower) heart, they will call your flop bet & probably another on a brick turn. People will also call with worse queens and other paired cards...hell, in live 2/4, people will call with A high/no draw. But if the fourth heart comes on the turn and you bet, you can kiss a lot of those calls goodbye.

Bet the flop.

RatFink · #4 10-13-2005, 09:19 PM

You do realize that 5 loose passive calling stations will call you if you bet the flop with top pair top kicker and an incredible draw to the nuts. This makes you money. If you have a chance to cap this flop with them all still in you should.

You do also realize that if you check, 5 loose passive calling stations will also check. This does not make you money.

You should want to make money.

#5 10-13-2005, 09:29 PM

I know...I know ... it was a brain fart. I usually play better than that (no, really). I should have put the "embarrassed" icon [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] next to my post. I just had to write down and share with other players what my thought process was because it had been bothering me for a few days. I had taken some esoteric poker concepts re: free cards and slowplaying WAY too far.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

felix83 · #6 10-13-2005, 09:41 PM

Nothing wrong with the post that I could see, in terms of structure. Now in terms of content, I'm not going to repeat what everyone has already said, so I'll just say this: On this dream flop I am betting, raising and capping with no end in sight. There is no reasoning that makes checking this okay.

goofball · #7 10-13-2005, 10:47 PM

It is a big mistake, it's unlikel you are against a flush, and even if you are you have a great deal of outs. You should be because you figure to have the best hand a ton of the time. This is a pot you are likely to win and you want to start getting money in it as soon as possible. This is an awesome flop for you! Bet!