Flop and turn decisions in a big pot

#1 10-12-2005, 05:57 PM

Last weekend playing in a pretty standard live 9 handed 4-8 game, with a fairly loose and passive table that makes many dubious calls pf and continues calling throughout to hit their gutshots. Only 2 other players considered tough, both of which folded pf during the following hand:

Hero is in SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
1 call
Hero raises
Next two cold call
Button calls
SB, BB and original limper call

Flop: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, 1 call, Hero calls, everyone calls to SB who folds (6 players)

I normally raise here, facing most of the table with 2 cold. However I knew that at this point if they were calling 1, they were calling 2, and I was going to wait until a safe turn card hit to raise. Should I still be raising building a pot that is so big no one will fold? Is this almost inevitable at this point?

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
2 checks, Hero checks (?) , Bet, 3 calls, fold, Hero (?)

What should I do initially? Do I raise here or just call when it comes back? The original bettor is on my immediate left but I haven’t seen him raise in 1 hour. A raise here probably gets called around, and I think that if my card hits it could get paid off by a variety of hands on river…

River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Oh well that sucks.

I guess my biggest question is how to play this big pot on the flop and turn, as I feel like I get too passive when lots of big draws are out…only to see others take the pot with mediocre holdings when the draws don’t totally come through.

W. Deranged · #2 10-12-2005, 06:02 PM

The action is screwed up. How are you raising after one limper when you're in the small blind?

JinX11 · #3 10-12-2005, 06:02 PM

I think a Turn bet is very standard. This would suck to get checked through and even if someone hit their frush and raises you, you have a 10-out redraw to top boat or better. As you played it, you are definitely calling the turn bet - you have plenty of odds to call a single bet here.

River card sucks - depends on where the bet comes from and if it is raised/overcalled, I suppose.

JinX11 · #4 10-12-2005, 06:03 PM

Oh yeah....

[ QUOTE ]
The action is screwed up. How are you raising after one limper when you're in the small blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

#5 10-12-2005, 07:16 PM

Need to edit that, I was UTG +1. My bad.

callmedonnie · #6 10-12-2005, 07:22 PM

I mean know malice when I say I think you grossly misplayed this hand. On the flop I am raising. Even if you can't force anyone out w/ two bets, that doesn't mean you can't bet them for value and give big blind a chance to three bet.

On the turn you absolutely cannot check. A checkraise is not the play here because you will force people who already have a bet to call with even better odds than those they would have faced (which are plenty good already to see another club fall). LEAD this, RAISE if one of the blinds bets into you.

River sucks, but had you played the hand differently from the beginning you would have a much better chance of winning , good enough to call a single bet which in a large pot is another must.

#7 10-12-2005, 08:20 PM

This hand did leave me sick, first for my not raising on flop, then for the ensuing cards.

Now playing live I can tell you indisputably that at least 1 player behind me (the cold calling button) had made the flush on the turn. Given my large number of outs, should I have been betting this when checked to me, hoping to get some callers before a probable raise on the end?