KK against a PF 3-bet

[Kyriefurro]

Villain is 22/10.8 after about 70 hands

Stacks:
Hero - $160
Villain - $41

Hero is in CO with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop <font color="blue"> (6 players) </font> : UTG folds, MP <font color="red"> raises </font> tos $3.50, Hero <font color="red"> raises </font> to $10, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, MP <font color="red"> raises </font> to $18.50, Hero thinks until almost out of time and....?

I really debated this and came very close to folding. I decided to call based on four factors:

1) 70 hands isn't enough for me to completely trust the stats, even though preflop aggression converges fairly quickly.

2) 10.8 is fairly aggressive, even for 6-max. I estimated that villain's re-raising range could be as large as AA, KK, or QQ. I'm ahead of or even with 60% of these.

3) Villain is short-stacked. I'm not gambling a lot on this decission.

4) Button's probably going to call too, putting some extra money in the pot.

Did I overthink this?

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Did I overthink this?

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YES, you have waaaaay overthought this. PUSH!

[nuSFwck]

i would reraise, let the button fold, and get MP to push. he's clearly not folding. if he's got AA, that sucks. you're nearly always ahead, though.

don't just call his reraise preflop. what if BB calls as well and the flop is A J 7?

raise and stack MP.

[Kyriefurro]

Still thinking about this one.

Villain is TAG and is probably aware that I wouldn't three-bet this PF without a premium hand. He's easily good enough to know that his hand needs to be VERY good to re-raise again.

Also (and this just occurred to me), Villain bought in short-stacked. This is actually only the third or fourth hand he's played on this table (I've played against him before - hence the stats). There's a good chance he's trying to catch a premium PP and double up, rather than just playing poker.

Still worth the push?

And what if his stack was deeper? Push still?

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Villain is TAG and is probably aware that I wouldn't three-bet this PF without a premium hand. He's easily good enough to know that his hand needs to be VERY good to re-raise again.


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Sure he knows this, and sure, you're not being deceptive, but in this situation, it doesn't matter. When the pot gets big, play the cards. We already know he likes his cards, and he is absolutely committed w/ his small stack after his raise. If he has AA, pay off his puny stack and move on.

[ QUOTE ]

Also (and this just occurred to me), Villain bought in short-stacked. This is actually only the third or fourth hand he's played on this table (I've played against him before - hence the stats). There's a good chance he's trying to catch a premium PP and double up, rather than just playing poker.



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Huh? YOU have a premium PP. Even if you think that's what he's doing, you are ahead of more of his possible hands than you are behind.

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Still worth the push?


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YES

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And what if his stack was deeper? Push still?

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This makes the discussion actually interesting, if we're considering much deeper stacks. Personally, I'd still push here. MAYBE, if you have a stellar read on this guy, you could put in another strong reraise (assuming deeeep stacks), and fold to a push? I can't stand the idea of laying down KK to QQ or JJ, which is why I don't have a problem paying off AA. I've done it before and will do it again. KK is still my 2nd biggest money-maker.

[djoyce003]

him buying in shortstacked makes the push easier...he isn't buying in hoping to catch a premium pair and get it all in...he's buying in hoping to catch ANY pair and get it all in....his range IMO is more than likely 88-AA, AK-AQ here....and that puts him at the high end of the tightness spectrum from some of the short stack preflop pushers.

[Kyriefurro]

Thanks for taking the time to explain your resoning. To be honest, pushing this PF never even occurred to me. At the time this hand played out his 3-bet immediately made me think he had AA. In fact I felt about 90% sure of it. I was vascilating between calling and folding.

When I decided to call, my plan was to push on any safe flop. I failed to consider that with the third person playing along the pot was so large that any reasonable bet would push villain all-in anyway. I may as well get it all in now.

As it was, the flop came ragged low cards and I bet enough to put him all in. He called and showed AA lol.

So I made the wrong play, but the good news is I saved a lot of money on my ......oh never mind! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[BigBiceps]

Go all in preflop after his raise. You have the second best starting hand.

Sometimes you will lose to AA, but I have seen people go all in preflop with other hands like QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55 Ax KQ KJ and other garbage.

Just do it, it is not like you are even risking half your stack.

Kinda figured villain turned over AA based on your posts. You just gotta pay it off.

[Hattifnatt]

I don't know what level you're thinking now but if you're relative new to poker don't think of terms of folding KK preflop in cashgames whatsoever... It's dangerous and can get a too weak-tight approach...

just my 2 cents