Please do not ask people what %s they get, we do not allow this.

[Jim Easton]

Stupid rule. That post is one of your most viewed. This is something people want to know and compare. I do understand you not wanting to have to compete based on percentage. Nice to have such self-serving moderators.

[morgant]

jim, you may view this rule as stupid. but you dont have complete information. and are acting soley on yourself getting more money. if this practice is kept up for too long, rakeback will cease altogether. would you prefer 35% next month, then access to rakeback cut off, or 25% for the next 12? i have stickied a more thought out post on this topic. here is an excerpt;


'we dont allow rakeback %'s for many reasons, most importantly, the sites dont allow it. lorinda may ask then, how do we offer it? the sites dont mind paying us within their structured tiers for the marketing we do for them. however, when affilaite XYZ(hypothetical example) starts offering 39% to his players, and that site only gives out 40%. the affiliates like myself, who have built a business around this, cant survive on a 1% profit margin. in time affilaite XYZ wont be able to survive either and eventually the players will be emailing affilaite XYZ asking where the past months payment is. if the market has raised rakeback % to 39%, i must then go negotiate with the pokersite to give me 45% so i can remain profitable and competitive. now the site is struggling to remain profitable and cant offer me 45%, then with the headaches and nonsense they must consider killing the rakeback market, which party did by removing the tracker reporting. in a long winded way, i am hoping some of you read this, and can understand that getting a 1/4th discount on your poker play is a pretty good deal. by bartering and trying to get more, this could potentially kill the market. hence our refusal to allow percentage talks. '

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
but you dont have complete information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, I already read your post. Your "death spiral" from competition isn't "information", it is conjecture.

[ QUOTE ]
and are acting soley on yourself getting more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong again. I've been where I am for a long time and will not change.

This information is what people want to know. Competition will not destroy the industry.

I certainly can understand why you would want to tell people to take their 25% and be happy.

[jman220]

First, I completely understand your desire to not allow percentage talks here, and don't argue with it. You paid for this forum, and ultimately, you hope to make money from it. However the analysis and justification you provided in the above post is deeply flawed. From an economics perspective, this is just supply and demand, and the market will stabilize at an efficient rakeback percentage, and it will do this based upon the demand by the consumers (customers), and the supply by the producers (poker sites, how much of their profits they are willing to cut off for more customers to generate more profits). These forces are controlled by the marketplace. And of course, the quickest way for the marketplace to achieve efficiency is for everyone to have complete information, and for that information to be dispersed widely, which of course means knowing the rakeback percentage numbers. Now, like I said, I understand why you don't want these published, because you have whatever numbers you sell your rakeback at, and you don't want competitors to be able to use a forum you created and you pay for to attract business at your expense. And like I said, this is fine. But lets not make these spurious arguments as to why you have this policy, most of us myself included will just accept that you paid for this forum.
Discussion of rb percentages anywhere will not lead to the demise of rakeback, unless the demise of rakeback is the efficient outcome that would have occurred anyway, in which case discussion or lack thereof of rakeback will have no effect on the inevitable outcome.

[morgant]

agreed, kinda. there are forces acting that you or jim have no idea about. some of which i simply alluded to in a manner i thought could be grasped by the many who read these forums. it would take much time and explanation for me to outline the reasons behind no % talks. this has reasoning first and foremost because the poker sites dont want it, which ultimately will affect my business. if they dont want it, and i rely on them, i dont want it.

i have no need to discuss these matters, and did so in hopes to present some of the issues present. i didnt want to moderate this forum with an iron fist and wanted to be able to openly discuss issues that are puzzling to many online poker players. so yes, my answer to jim is brief and flawed, but the basis for it is not, and is very real.

i see where this will go, and now this is a dead topic, any percentage talks will be deleted and i feel no obligation any longer to explain why, i tried, and it hasnt been received well.

morg.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
'we dont allow rakeback %'s for many reasons, most importantly, the sites dont allow it. lorinda may ask then, how do we offer it? the sites dont mind paying us within their structured tiers for the marketing we do for them. however, when affilaite XYZ(hypothetical example) starts offering 39% to his players, and that site only gives out 40%. the affiliates like myself, who have built a business around this, cant survive on a 1% profit margin. in time affilaite XYZ wont be able to survive either and eventually the players will be emailing affilaite XYZ asking where the past months payment is. if the market has raised rakeback % to 39%, i must then go negotiate with the pokersite to give me 45% so i can remain profitable and competitive. now the site is struggling to remain profitable and cant offer me 45%, then with the headaches and nonsense they must consider killing the rakeback market, which party did by removing the tracker reporting. in a long winded way, i am hoping some of you read this, and can understand that getting a 1/4th discount on your poker play is a pretty good deal. by bartering and trying to get more, this could potentially kill the market. hence our refusal to allow percentage talks. '

[/ QUOTE ]


Isnt this exactly how Walmart has become the worlds largest retailer?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Isnt this exactly how Walmart has become the worlds largest retailer?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isnt this exactly how Walmart has become the worlds largest retailer?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the beginning Walmart made its name (and profit) by essentially fighting for the consumer. The go to the manufacturers and get the lowest possible price, then they get it lowered even more and pass the savings to the customer. They help manufacturers lower costs and thereby prices, and pass it on to the little guy. It is a very direct analogy as to what can be accomplished with the poker rooms.

[ QUOTE ]
Combined, we have generated tens of millions for poker sites and have given back over $4.3 million to our users

[/ QUOTE ]
1% aint all that bad, since it is recurring revenue with almost no cost after a customer is accquired

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
this has reasoning first and foremost because the poker sites dont want it

[/ QUOTE ]

Like many 2+2ers, you seem to be assuming that "sites" and "Party skins" are equivalent. There are plenty of sites that are quite happy to have rakeback discussed specifically.

[morgant]

[ QUOTE ]
1% aint all that bad, since it is recurring revenue with almost no cost after a customer is accquired


[/ QUOTE ]

you are making statements with very little knowledge and imperfect information.