Dissident Israeli Soldiers' Petition

A constant theme in the U.S. media is that Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza serves to defend Israel against Arab and Palestinian aggression. The following is another view in the form of a petition signed by 110 Israeli reserve soldiers, several of whom have complained in separate media accounts about the tactics they have been called on to execute, including the IDF's occasional deliberate targeting of Palestinian civilans, specifically children. According to today's NY Times, "[o]ne soldier said he was court-martialed after refusing to fire from a machine gun at a civilian area." The Times also reports that Israel's army chief will take "tough action" against the dissident soldiers.


Found at www.seruv.org:


• We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces,

• who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

• We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.

• We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.

• We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.

• We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.

• We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.

We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

• We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.

They deserve to be interned for insubordination at hard labor, and to be investigated financially to potential bribes. You don't believe Israel has a right to exist. Nor do you belive that Palestinian terrorism targets civiians. Palestinians target almost exclusively civilians. They also target USA forces. They are synonimous with Al Queda, Hamas, Iraq and Iran. Clinton gave the Palestinians more on the table than they ever will get again. They answered not with peace. They answered with bombing school children in buses,and lynching old men. Keep it up. Keep stating how the Israelis and the USA are trrorists. Keep donating funds to these terrorists. The feds will then find your illegal gambling money in the audit they conduct. You will wind up in jail, Herr Alger.

Mason,


Someone is continually making personal attacks against Mr. Alger in an anonymous fashion. They use name calling and always distort his position beyond any logical conclusions, in addition to likening him to a criminal for what he thinks.


I think these posts are harassment and should be deleted. Chris is showing an alternative viewpoint to an world conflict that has many sides and interpretations. He is speaking with an open mind, not using this forum to attack individuals. I welcome his submissions and think that his being targeted is unfortunate. The person (I suspect it is one person using several monikers) doing so is not abiding by the posting guidelines, in my opinion.


KJS

He's made a habit of it. Let's delete the truth, and permit radical Islamic propaganda to stand.

Mason has done a pretty good job of deleting many of these posts, but the forum has been terrorized for years by this guy, and it's hard to keep up with all the junk. He even flamed some guy below simply because his name was "Chris."


He's not really anonymous, either. His name is Ray Springfield and he lives in Golden Colorado. He's the same guy on the internet forum that used to post under the names of other posters, including wb, Andrew Prock, me and quite a few others, to the point where the "profile" became necessary. Bob L is his most recent victim. He's the same guy that's constantly raving, under various aliases, about the FBI, the IRS, international crime, terrorism and money laundering associated with internet poker.


He doesn't beleive any of this, of course. He doesn't think that I'm antisemitic or donate money to terrorists or that internet poker is a "federal felony, as he's claimed in the past, or that it's crooked. Indeed, he played on Paradise and Planet for a long time until the losses became unbearable. He does this because he hates poker players and he hates poker players because he's a degenerate gambler. If you check the archives, you'll see him admitting that he thinks Paradise is legitimate, and that he was trying to reactivate his account. Paradise won't let him, however, because he triggered a "problem gambler" flag. He therefore spends all his time trying to trash these forums because they represent everything he'd like to be but isn't. It's his way of getting even.


When his posts contain some defamatory lie, like the one above accusing me of donating money to terrorsists I ask that the post be deleted, but I otherwise I no longer respond to these things.

But the truth is the truth. You do falgrantly and illegally participate in online gambling in Colorado. Your views toward Israel are radical.


Still, I cannot take credit for your admirers. You have at least 4 to 5 other people here that find your views outrageous. Your paranoia is setting in again.

If you wish to sue me for stating that online gambling is illegal in Colorado, and that you openly participate, or that your views on Israel are radical, be my guest. You do participate in online gambling, have openly posted that in your opinion online gambling is legal in this state (contrary to statue and published opinion of the current AG and gaming commission), and your position on Israel is offensively biased. I'd love to discuss your activities in the Colorado courts. You won't have the automatic gag order of the Colorado Supreme Court to hide behind.


A counter suit would follow immediately, and the outcome and proceedings would be freely forwarded to the authorities.


I have some Jewish attorney friends in town that would love to get you on the stand explaining your position, and defending me. Some of them are very well known.

I agree with vigorous debate. Even though I rarely agree with what Mr. Alger says, he has a right to his opinion and as long as he presents it in a proper manner it is welcome here. It's a shame that this Springfield fellow has to take the contstant personal attacks and damage these forums. It's precisely this type of attitude that stops compromises from being created and accepted, and difficult problems don't get solved.

Prove to all of us that internet gambling is legal in Colorado.


Prove that the USA and Israel are terrorists and that this whole war (and the war in Israel) is nothing more than a zionist conspiracy to rule America, and thus the world.


Prove in the courts that he is wrong. Then all the others will have to quit posting that you participate in an illegal activity, that officers of the court can play internet poker in Colorado above the 5 dollar limit, and that anyone that believes that the issue of Palestine has nothing to do with Israel's right to exist is objective and educated.


The entire free world stands waiting to be told how things truly are by a courageous man like you.

This material was posted as a link by itchyball:


House Financial Services Committee Chairman and former FBI agent Michael Oxley told the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee yesterday that Internet gambling and credit card fraud are still vital means of disguising the paper trail that leads to terrorists.


Oxley said the FBI is aware that credit card fraud is 'used extensively in Internet gambling and to transact business through unregulated offshore secrecy havens.


'At a minimum, credit card associations should be required to implement anti-money laundering programs, as mandated for all financial institutions in the PATRIOT Act,' he added.


House Financial Services Committee Ranking Democrat John LaFalce said that the government needs to 'have a much better handle on (Internet gambling). The problem is growing astronomically,” adding 'If we don't deal with that issue, we're going to have unbelievable money laundering taking place globally.”


Another anti-gambling bill, H.R. 3215, introduced by Rep. Robert Goodlatte, gives U.S. attorneys general the power to require financial institutions to refuse transactions for online gaming. It would become illegal for banks and individuals to knowingly accept credit cards, checks or electronic fund transfer as payment for Internet gambling.