Collusion Betting in Bizarro Game

Capt Phoenix · #1 05-12-2003, 05:26 PM

I'm fairly new to Hold'em (been playing since wednesday) and ran into something weird last night.

After the $2-$5 Hold'em game broke up the only table left was what they called $5-$5 Hold em. State law mandates a $5 limit. This game has two $5 blinds, all the gambler types flock to it, and there are usually 7-10 callers to see the flop. Since I knew I couldn't pry my wife off the slots just yet, I decided (against my better judgement) to sit in and see if I could find a way to take advantage.
As I sat there playing so tight I would have hurt myself if I tried to pass gas, I noticed a strange behavior at the other end of the table. Two guys who were obviously friends would periodically go on these raising rampages. Every time the first one would raise the second would re-raise, then they would repeat it as the betting reached them again. They would do this before the flop and only when they had position, then (if the flop wasn't awesome) they'd repeat it after the flop. If that didn't work, they folded on the turn, or just check-called if they had mediocre hands. At the time I didn't think anything of it, and just filed it under "strange behavior to take advantage of if I get uber-cards".
It's only as I was reviewing the session today in my mind that I suddenly realized what I was seeing.

Was what they were doing illegal? How can it be proved? Should I try to spot it again next week, or just warn the pit-boss of what I thought I saw so he can be on the lookout?

Schmed · #2 05-12-2003, 05:37 PM

Personally I would have called the floor with that suspicious behaviour.

If you're not sure you should have quietly pointed it out to some of the other players at the table. If they noticed that there was collision going on they would have been all over it.

Collusion like that can get you barred from card rooms.

MtSmalls · #3 05-12-2003, 05:41 PM

Capt,

From your description it sounds like you were playing in Colorado (the only place I know of with these draconian rules). Would you mind telling me which casino you noticed this at? Not the people involved, just the casino...

Capt Phoenix · #4 05-12-2003, 06:00 PM

Midnight Rose in Cripple Creek. Nice read.

oddjob · #5 05-12-2003, 06:00 PM

the $5-5 games in colorado are absulutely nuts. crazy even. the players are filled with maniacal asians, that have no rhyme or reason to their bets or raises.

it happens all the time. they think they can bully the table, or they just like to build themselves huge pots for the times they do win.

Capt Phoenix · #6 05-12-2003, 06:19 PM

I think the general craziness of the betting ("You called a $15 raise on the river with 42o?! The table beats you!") was the main reason I didn't identify what was going on at the time. The others were fatigue and inexperience. I've read about cheating methods, but I've never actually seen any.
Regardless of whether I ever play the game again; I want to make sure that doesn't happen again. Even loose, wild, drunks don't deserve to be cheated.

DaNoob · #7 05-12-2003, 06:43 PM

I don't know much about live play, and am very new to the game as well, but how can 2 people raising like complete idiots be considered collusion? Even if they went in planning to do this, as long as they don't share any information about their hand with each other, I don't see how you can call it collusion.

Am I missing something?

Play Tight · #8 05-12-2003, 06:49 PM

There are a couple of possibilites. As a reply stated above in the crazy world of $5-$5 Colorado poker anything is possible. I have seen capped on every street with 4 players showing their hands with out even as much as a pair from any of them. This is one of the biggest "gamlbling games" I have ever saw at any $ limit, its full of maniacs who only hope to hit that one or two big pots. So it could of been a bizare game that you just happened to get seated at.

On the other hand it sounds like there was something going on, whether intentional or not amongst these two. Of course its too late now to do anything about it but if you plan on going back to the same game next weekend I would defenitly take a moment to get to know the floor person. This will help you in many ways and not only with this issue but having someone on your side helps to get table changes, food comps, etc. Explain what you may or may not of seen and let them know that your new to the game and that you don't want to stirr the drink too much but that you feel it should be played on an even field. This is their job, to keep you happy and coming back vs. the tourist who may or may not ever come back.

Not to windbag you any more but I have personnally ran into a situation similar where as at first I thought it was concidental raising going on until I saw the pattern and called it. The casino didn't do as much as I had expected but they did move the offending players to different tables so that there could be no question as to what was going on. The bottom line is you might look like a jackass if your wrong but I would rather be wrong and keep my $ in my bankroll rather then keep quite and lose my cash to some cheaters.

lefty rosen · #9 05-12-2003, 07:40 PM

I have seen some bizzare games like this online and live always at the casinos lowest limit level, they maybe cheating but unless one player has the nuts irregardless what hits the board on the river this usually won't help in these crazy games. That said I wouldn't want to be on a draw or have something where you are forced to call to keep two maniacs honest. These days I basically avoid these games.

oddjob · #10 05-14-2003, 01:28 PM

if they are working together, they are trying to raise and reraise the pot, trying to drive the other players out. then one of them wins. they split the profit up later.

in this $5-5 colorado game, i haven't seen many players fold for any amount of raises if they think they have the slightest chance of winning the pot.