Show me your slick

dux · #1 05-10-2003, 07:30 AM

1/2 online, passive at the moment, but as usual the players are not as bad as one would like.

I get dealt K[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] in UTG + 2, one EP limper, I limp, MP limps, the player to his left raises, late position flat calls - the big-blind and everybody else who called once calls again. 5 players.

Flop: Q[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

I find KQo questionable, but this is its flop, and there is a good chance I'm winning. But do I check or check-raise? Or is this one of those times when I check-call to keep him betting an AK AJ and worse, so I gain more money of him bluffing his way out, while saving myself money if he has AQ or better? With 4 opponents, and with a hand that does not want to give a free card, I don't think this is the case.
I decide to bet - MP raiser calls, and LP who flat called two bets before the flop, calls again. The rest fold.

Turn: A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] (Q[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img])

Not good at all. Check or bet? I figure if I choose to continue I should bet, but I don't. I check. The preflop raiser bets, late position folds, and I call. A check-call here is wrong, right? But now I'm committed.

River: 6[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] (A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]) (Q[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img])

I check, he bets, I call.

Firstly, on the flop I think I have two options, to bet the flop or check-raise it. Am I correct and if so which would you do (or morelikely what % of the time would you make a certain move)?
Once the bullet falls on the turn, am I correct the two options are to bet and fold to a raise, or check-fold?
I just check-called and said "show me your slick", hoping he was bluffing, and I would have dropped it had the cold caller called again.

And lastly, do you think I won?

All comments appreciated.

Bob T. · #2 05-10-2003, 02:08 PM

There were 6 1/2 Big bets in the pot after the flop. The pot is laying you 8 1/2 to 2 to call those two bets, I think that you probably win some of the time here, but I don't know if you win often enough to justify it. I think that you are right, if you bet the turn, and get raised, you can probably lay it down. If you just get called, I don't know what you are going to do on the river. Maybe bet the river, and hope that your opponents pair of jacks is going to call.

pufferfish · #3 05-10-2003, 02:23 PM

Good post.

I agree with your flop bet. I don’t want to give out any free cards, possibly even to the PFR. If I was UTG (having 2 opponents between me and PFR) and was very sure PFR would bet, then I think I would check-raise to shake the tree.

Darn turn. I’m not ready to give up on my queen, so for better or worse I think I bet and call if he raises.

Whether he raises or calls the turn, I think I’m gonna check (call) the river.

bad beetz · #4 05-10-2003, 08:47 PM

I think you should raise before the flop. On the flop, I think you should check-raise given that you limped. If you raised before the flop, I would bet out. when raised, I would probably three bet.

The ace is a death card, you are now behind the good range of hands that you were ahead of.

You beat AK, AJ, JJ, TT, and were behind of AA, KK, QQ, AQ. now you are behind just about everything on the turn. You may check and fold or check and call or bet and fold to a raise. I think all three are close.

depending on the player, I like betting the turn and folding to a raise. when they just call, you're probably screwed and in never never land and the river is going to suck and you'll probably pay and lose.

lorinda · #5 05-11-2003, 02:10 AM

And lastly, do you think I won

Not sure you would have made this post if you had lost, but I cant think of a hand that you are beating, so I'm going to plump for the split pot option.

Lori

dux · #6 05-11-2003, 03:36 AM

I lost the hand, he showed Q[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] for the flopped set.

It's interesting how people who compulsively slowplay always end up getting one bet on each round. They wait too long, and rarely get the raise in.

dux · #7 05-11-2003, 03:41 AM

I don't like to raise KQ offsuit, especially in early position. I think it is because I have more experience in no-foldem low limit games and cash NL. Big unsuited cards to me face an uphill battle from early position.

bad beetz · #8 05-11-2003, 04:40 PM

I have to disagree.

If there are several limpers to you and raising is knocking no-one out, than fine, limp. But I think that if you're UTG + 2 here with one limper you have to raise. Even if the pot goes from 7 handed for one bet to 5 handed for 2 bets I think that's better. Less hands to suck out on you for more money.

In tough games I muck this UTG.