Is this too tight.............

slavic · #1 05-09-2003, 05:07 PM

ok since my last post of a disaster I have banished my self to the bush leagues to work on DISCIPLIN. Yes I shall focus my inner sole to the rythms of sound logical play, in a chaotic world. ZEN SHALL BE MINE!

So PP .5/1 fairly loose game with 3 people seeing 90% of the pots (their my new best friends [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )

I'm one off the button with K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Oh the poker gods have smiled up on me, high suited conector, a favored hand for a favored son I'm sure.

3 limps from the Wild At Heart crew. We'll just call them WAHC(pronounced Wack) for short. Then a raise form Mr I raise any A and any middle pair.

Oh despare, why must the gods mock me? A risky race either way with possibly 5 players in the pot. I shall do the only rational thing and fold.

The BB calls, call, call, call, 5 players see:

J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

uhg top two pair thwarted of course Ace boy may have AT, then a frantic wild round of betting from the Wack, Ace man calls a 3 SB cold. Look at all those BB slipping from my fingers.......

Next card T [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]
whew dodged a bullet there, glad the poker gods love me. Wow that could have cost me 6 or 7 BB.

Yes you can see how it turned out but, I'm still not to comfortable about the fold. Though I'm not at all displeased with the result.

Bob T. · #2 05-09-2003, 05:19 PM

This one is tougher. Here is the guideline to remember. In Multi-way pots, Big unsuited cards don't play as well as big suited cards. In this case, you have big suited cards, and the pot is going to be multiway. You are a long way from being out of the woods, for instance what are you going to do, if the flop comes King or Queen high, and you are either facing a bet, or bet, and get raised.

However, in late position, in a multiway pot, with KQ suited, I would call unless I knew that the raiser was a tight raiser (of which there are a lot at .5/1.00), and see what happened.

Congratulations on the discipline to lay that one down, and worry about the results later. If you can do that, you can get used to letting go of a lot of other cards that seem to be pretty, that don't play well in the situation you find yourself in, when the action gets to you.

hutz · #3 05-09-2003, 05:46 PM

If you're playing too tight when you fold in that situation, at least you're not alone. I'd fold in that spot almost every time.

bernie · #4 05-09-2003, 10:24 PM

that kind of table, im at least calling. may even reraise it. but im not folding. not with that many players possibly seeing the flop.

b

hutz · #5 05-09-2003, 11:01 PM

I hate cold-calling pre-flop raises. If I were going to play on, it'd be with a 3-bet.

Bob T. · #6 05-10-2003, 03:14 AM

With all those limpers up front, I think that this might be a hand that I could justify a call with. Without the limpers, I think that I would lean toward either three bet, or fold. If I had a pocket pair, I could also justify a cold call here, you can expect that it will be played at least 5 ways, and maybe as many as 7 ways, and you have good position. If you fold, you might be giving up a little, but I don't think that it would be a lot.

TJD · #7 05-11-2003, 09:07 PM

How happy would you be if the flop was Kc7h2h? Glad to fold now?

OK, this flop was a poisened chalice; that happens! Poker is a game of odds. Str8 and flush draws out there giving you a chance to lose a lot of money with what is probably the best hand now but with only 4 outs if you are behind now or drawn out on.

Personally, I would just call the raise to avoid the chance of losing any of the limpers but if I had been at the end of the field and could have reraised for value while keeping everyone in I would have done that.

If there are 5 in then KQs will win more than 20% of the time (I think)and so a reraise for value is justified.

I would have lost a lot of chips on this hand but would probably have been out on the turn (once the T hit)if there was any real action unless the odds were right. However, bear in mind that I am getting 5-1 on my preflop money with more to come if the flop is kind. I will flop a pair 1 time in 3!

I am happy to be corrected by more experienced players but in a loose LL game I think that folding this will cost you money. This is especially so if the raiser has such predictable and weak raising standards.

I would appreciate other views.

T

bernie · #8 05-11-2003, 10:35 PM

it also depends on the players behind you. along with other factors.

if you knew the players were going to call anyways, but may fold to a 3 bet, since there are many players already in, why not let them in to? unless youre trying to buy the button.

but do you really want to pay any more to see this flop? a 3 bet is an option, but will it accomplish what you want with it if you do it? what would be your goal with a 3 bet? wouldnt you like the blinds to come along too? i would.

however, a 3 bet may help define the raisers hand a little better.

both ways are valid. but im seeing this flop.

just some ideas

b

BruceZ · #9 05-11-2003, 11:06 PM

For a minute I thought I had stumbled into the bondage forum. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

This is a hand that wants to play large multiway pots against loose players. You want to call if it will let in other players behind you, and if they will not call a raise, or if a raise would fold the other limpers. The main difficulty lies with getting into a 4-way pot, and then you would want to know how to get away from your hand if you do play.