What to do on a large pot on the button?

slavic · #1 05-06-2003, 05:50 PM

Hi there, just a note I'm new to Hold'em and have enjoyed the heck out of the online games because of their speed of play. Today on paradise I got my head handed to me on a large pot that I just couldn't get myself out of. Looking for a bit of advice.
Loose somewhat agressive online game.
I'm on the button with K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]
UTG limps, fold, limp, limp, limp, Raise, fold, I call, sb calls, BB calls, everyone else calls. (16SB in the pot)
Flop[J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] ]
Ok not perfect but plenty of outs, 2 overcards, backdoor flush and straight

SB bets, bb calls, fold, fold, call, raise, I call, everyone calls out (10 SB pot is now 26sb)

Turn is [J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] ][T [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] ]
ok My flush is gone straight is good still two overcards.
Everyone checks to me I bet, BB call, call, call, Raise (from 1 off the button) all call out.
(8 BB pot at 8Bb plus 26 SB)

OK time for some help from the river.
[J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] ][J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]
[img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] oh what to do, well another bet at the pot can't hurt.

BB folds, call, call

other two hands [K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] ] and [J [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] ]

Ok I knew I was beat but I couldn't find a way to release the hand. Anyone know a solution (other than give up the game)? Opinions?

Bob T. · #2 05-06-2003, 07:16 PM

Preflop, your call is loose, but not out of the question given the 8 way action. I would worry about being dominated by the preflop raiser.

Flop, your call is a little loose, you don't close the action, and you might be facing a three bet from EP. You have to be concerned about your hand being dominated, so you might be on as little as three outs.

Turn. You have 4 clean outs, and it is checked to you on the button. You have 4 opponents, no chance that you will win this pot with a bet, and not enough opponents to get value from your bet. Any card that makes a pair for you, could make a straight. Take the free card.

River. Too many opponents, too much money, this bluff won't work. Do you really think the turn checkraiser is laying his hand down?

Misplayed on every street.

Barry · #3 05-06-2003, 07:36 PM

Preflop - If someone raises after a bunch of limpers, it means a big hand, the call is a little loose but not awful, since you've got a multiway pot going. I'd be happier if it was suited.

Flop - Bet and raised to you, time to go, for 1 bet maybe...

Turn - You have nothing, you're not going to get everyone to fold, check it through.

River - Same as turn.

Not folding the flop was bad, but betting the turn and river was worse.

I think you need to develop some patience. As you said, it's online poker; the next hand is only a few seconds away.

JTG51 · #4 05-06-2003, 08:13 PM

Flop, your call is a little loose...

I'd say the flop call is more than a little loose. He called 2 bets cold with a hand that could very well be drawing only to runner runner outs.

I agree though, misplayed on every street.

bernie · #5 05-07-2003, 02:04 AM

fold preflop
fold the flop
turn your stuck to the river
fold the river

b

bernie · #6 05-07-2003, 02:10 AM

"If someone raises after a bunch of limpers, it means a big hand"

why do some think this? your range of raising hands after many limpers can be pretty wide at this point. he could very well have the raiser beat at this time. my main worry is the early limpers that probably have some of my outs. THEN id factor in the raisers preflop raise standards. some do have tight standards here and so you could be easily dominated if this is that type of player.

that said, i agree that if his hand was suited, hell, i may have seen the flop with it. but not unsuited. KQo just doesnt do to much in a large multiway pot. it needs alot of help.

b

SoBeDude · #7 05-07-2003, 09:32 AM

What time do you usually play on paradise? I'd like to join you for a game.

Nottom · #8 05-07-2003, 10:08 AM

The flop call is the thing that gives me the most trouble I think. If I were gonna make the call I think I would probably raise and try and get out stuff like AK, AQ, QT, and KT, granted they wouldn't go anywhere in most games like this but its the thought that counts; at the least maybe you can take a free card on the turn.

On the turn when your straight draw comes in, your definately seeing the river. I like your bet when checked to, since it appears that no one has a Jack and maybe you can take the pot on a semi-bluff with the scare card. When you get check-raised by a straightfoward player you now know where that jack is.

On the river, I think its pretty pointless to bet. Even with 21BB in the pot, I don't think this bluff will work often enough against 3 people.

eMarkM · #9 05-07-2003, 02:04 PM

Haven't read the other responses yet, but my guess is they're similar to what I'll say.

Preflop: loose call. Don't get into the habit of cold calling raises with a hand that can be dominated like KQo. Suited, a call isn't so bad.

Flop: very bad raise cold call. You have nothing. Overcards and vague draws are not enough against field to be calling a raise.

Turn: ok, you picked up a str8 draw now. But you still have nothing and you can be pretty sure someone has a J and is going to call your bet. You're semi bluff is not getting anyone to fold here.

River: bad bluff. Again, anyone with a J or T is likely going to call you down with the pot this big.

You contributed way too much to a pot with a hand that you probably shouldn't have even seen a flop with.

lefty rosen · #10 05-07-2003, 03:28 PM

You played that like a classic fish you had eight outs on the turn,thats about 19.6 chance of catching your winning combo, if that is raised to you fold. The only play you had here was to either smash the flop to see if anybody had a jack or the pre-flop raiser had a high pocket pair. Otherwise fold!! PS. dont assume your overs are going to win it for you either other players might have these cards with a jack or 10.