I hate these raising the BB from the SB situations

Against an unknown (his first orbit)

Its 6handed

Preflop: Its folded to me in the SB, holding KJ of diamonds. I raise the BB, he calls

Flop comes 10h 8c 3h

I bet, he calls

Turn comes Kc (Yay!)

I bet, he calls

River Comes 9c

I: checkfold/checkcall/betfold/betcall ? And why?

What if the turn comes a blank. Many of you betting that? I think i would, but thats just because i like to stay in control when im clueless [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[7ontheline]

If you don't bet this river, you shouldn't be playing shorthanded poker. Call a raise.

[whodaman]

im not sure if this could be anymore standard

[Poldi]

Check-fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Seriously, you have to bet this. The river card is scary but you have to valuebet your hands. If I fold or call a raise depends on the player, since he is unknown it depends on the limit you are playing.

[bds]

In thinking about a possible flush, it is important to differentiate between boards where there were 2 to a possible flush suit on the flop and then the third one comes on the river and a board where there was only one on the flop with the other 2 that would complete a flush coming runner runner. So, I don't think it is likely that he has a flush. Sure, he could have hit a straight on that card or 2 pair or any other number of hands that beat you, but I bet and call a raise here.

Jaja, i know the check/X part was too much, but i thought i had to include em for the sake of being complete in your choices. Lesson learned [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Of course im valuebetting here, but calling a raise doesnt seem as 'standard' as most people assume it to be to me. (This is low-limit by the way). There aren't really that much hands i beat on the river, that raise me. Apart from the bluffriverraises, that are pretty uncommon at lowlimits (its not such a maniacfest as some people try to make it out to be, its just reallly realllly loose) i can hardly come up with a hand i beat. The fact is/was, its an unknown, and just for that sake on itself im calling, but if i probably would make the average stat for a lowlimit-player, paste it on the forehead of any unknown, i wouldn't be surprised if me calling a raise would be -EV.

And for that matter(directed to the other backtapping posters), i found the hand to be interesting. I don't care wether its shorthanded, i don't care wether its a blindbattle between SB and BB (hardly the case at the river), i don't care wether its HU, im just trying to make a decision on every hand based on the data i have at hand and wether there is value in calling/betting or what else. If this is 'soooo standard' and you just wanna shoot me for taking your time to click and reading this hand, then please take the courtesy of 'enlightening' such a nobody as me why that is so. Cuz i don't see it, I still don't.

Results: the dude flipped over A7 of clubs for a rivered flush.

I still would like some input regarding a blank insignificant turncard in this situation, what would you do Poldi?

my thoughts exactly during the time of the hand, but read my reply (and question if u will) to Poldi. You agree or disagree to my afterthought?

[Poldi]

At 50c/1$ or 1/2$ you have to fold to the riverraise imo. According to my experience you will not get bluffraised a lot there. In fact I dont think I ever caught a riverbluffraise on 1/2 and did fine doing so.
On high limits you could say that the rivercard is so scary (completing straight and flushes or 2pairs like T9) that your opponent could notice it and therefore bluffraise. The lowlimitplayers dont think this way and they are right to do so. You may be capable of bet-folding the river but 95% of the players on these limits are not. I guess thats a big reason why you almost never get bluffraised on the river on these limits. If your opponents tried this in the past, chances are they did it against an opponent not capable folding to it and got caught every time so they stopped doing it.

If a blank falls on the turn, lets say 2d I would bet-fold the turn. On low-limits they peel the flop very lightly, they dont need a real reason to continue in the hand so its best to give him a chance to fold now again. If he raises you, its a safe fold. If you just check, you have no idea where you are and probably end up paying 2 BB when behind while gaining only 1 when ahead.
If he calls the turn, I check-fold pretty much ever river depending on the opponent. Most players just check their bad hands down and dont try to bluff but you probably know them better than I do now. Against more aggro players you have to show this hand down even UI some of the time.
If the loose-passives bet the river though, they have you beat almost every time when my experience is right on these limits.
I guess they just want to get to showdown to see which hand is best. If they can have a free showdown but bet anyways, they have at least something. Of course this is way different than play on the higher limits but I can only imagine this is what they must be thinking. Noone of these guys is valuebetting A-high or bluffing a lot so make sure you get your bets in when its likely you have the best hand.

Cool, thanks a lot for your input (its 1/2 by the way). I should learn to fold more in these instances. I still call too many raises at these tables i think.

I indeed call a raise against better players for the reasons you stated. How come i know this when i play 1/2 then? Well i got this nickel homegame where next to me, only 100-200 players and up are seated. Hows that for a challenge to a lowlimit Nobody [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]