OK. So I'm beat. Can I just check-fold?

aflaba · #1 09-17-2005, 12:07 PM

Today was an awful day... I was experimenting.

But in this hand I just didn't know what to do.

Opponent is SixCardMonte. I don't know much about him but he is a regular in 10/20. My (vague) impression is that isn't overly aggressive or trciky. But really, I have little clue.

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (4 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

He knows I'm tight so I don't think he is 3-betting much. Unless he figures me for weak. Anyway I thought I wasn't ahead of his range. So I figured I'd ch/r on good flops and probably call down on bad flops.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

OK. So the flop was good. Apparantly he didn't mind it either.

Turn: (6.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Ugh. What do I do now?

Final Pot: 9.75 BB.

What hand range do you put my opponent on through the hand?

How do you think I should have played it?

tongni · #2 09-17-2005, 12:14 PM

SixCardMonte's reasonably good, pretty aggressive and tricky from what I remember. But it's been a while. That said, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do here. You checkraise the flop, then lead the turn when the ace falls. Unless you have specifically A8 here, it doesn't really add up. You are probably beaten when the turn comes, but I can't be sure enough and I would check call the turn and check fold the river, or maybe check call because it is 4 handed. Depends on how the table feels. Be thankful he let you off the hook easy this time and decided to save you the extra BB instead of just calling the turn and betting when checked to on the river. Also this is an easy cap preflop, which might have won you the hand.

#3 09-17-2005, 12:32 PM

IMO, he has one of 3 hands once he backs off on the flop -- all of which beat you by the turn. Was the turn bet intentional, or did you click too fast (not kidding here, if you're multi-tabling, it can happen)? Anything other than c/f on the turn is just spewing chips.

aflaba · #4 09-17-2005, 12:43 PM

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That said, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do here.

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lol. I was only trying to get away from the hand cheaply. I really wanted to check-fold. You're right that he still could have made me pay 2 BB though.

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You are probably beaten when the turn comes, but I can't be sure enough and I would check call the turn and check fold the river, or maybe check call because it is 4 handed.

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check-call + check-fold seems like a better way to "get away cheaply". I never use that line though, so it didn't cross my mind. I see how it can be good though and I'll try to make it an option in the future.

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Also this is an easy cap preflop, which might have won you the hand.

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I still can't really grasp this. Why is it better to cap than to call and ch/raise his autobets on favorable flops? By waiting and ch/rasing I get my money in with much better equity.

I guess it is because my fold equity is better when "3-betting + betting" than when "calling + ch/r"? Is that the reason? Are there more reasons?

Grisgra · #5 09-17-2005, 12:48 PM

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IMO, he has one of 3 hands once he backs off on the flop -- all of which beat you by the turn. Was the turn bet intentional, or did you click too fast (not kidding here, if you're multi-tabling, it can happen)? Anything other than c/f on the turn is just spewing chips.

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He didn't back off on the flop. He played the flop like he had a set or overpair, then played the turn like he had a set or AK . . . or was being tricky. I probably call down just because I want to know if this guy is capable of 3-betting the flop with AK, but my curiousity usually gets the best of me.

pshabi · #6 09-17-2005, 12:56 PM

Someone needs to explain to me the value of check/calling the turn, only to check/fold the river.

You have two outs if behind on the turn? Why not just check/fold the turn if you're not going to showdown?

I don't get it, but maybe I'm missing something.

#7 09-17-2005, 12:56 PM

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IMO, he has one of 3 hands once he backs off on the flop -- all of which beat you by the turn. Was the turn bet intentional, or did you click too fast (not kidding here, if you're multi-tabling, it can happen)? Anything other than c/f on the turn is just spewing chips.

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He didn't back off on the flop. He played the flop like he had a set or overpair, then played the turn like he had a set or AK . . . or was being tricky. I probably call down just because I want to know if this guy is capable of 3-betting the flop with AK, but my curiousity usually gets the best of me.

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He DID back off on the flop. The reason why he did it doesn't change the fact that he backed off. The 3 hands I figure were 88, AA or AK. I have plenty of hands with him and he's not that tricky (at least not against me).

chio · #8 09-17-2005, 12:57 PM

terrible turn bet

(1) he may have been getting frisky with AK on the flop
(2) 99-KK aren't folding in this game
(3) he might check behind with 99-KK and give you a free river
(4) if you think you might still be ahead, just check-call

check-fold, check-raise, check-call are all better than betting the turn, IMO, in that order

bugstud · #9 09-17-2005, 01:04 PM

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IMO, he has one of 3 hands once he backs off on the flop -- all of which beat you by the turn. Was the turn bet intentional, or did you click too fast (not kidding here, if you're multi-tabling, it can happen)? Anything other than c/f on the turn is just spewing chips.

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He didn't back off on the flop. He played the flop like he had a set or overpair, then played the turn like he had a set or AK . . . or was being tricky. I probably call down just because I want to know if this guy is capable of 3-betting the flop with AK, but my curiousity usually gets the best of me.

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He DID back off on the flop. The reason why he did it doesn't change the fact that he backed off. The 3 hands I figure were 88, AA or AK. I have plenty of hands with him and he's not that tricky (at least not against me).

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button 3 bet. how is this backing off?

aflaba · #10 09-17-2005, 01:07 PM

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Someone needs to explain to me the value of check/calling the turn, only to check/fold the river.

You have two outs if behind on the turn? Why not just check/fold the turn if you're not going to showdown?

I don't get it, but maybe I'm missing something.

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I think the point is that if he is just being tricky he will back of after you call when that A hits. So he will check the river allowing you to win over his tricky hands.

I don't know if there is enough of them to jusitify paying 1 BB, but I think it is a good alternative to consider.