($27) Flop donkbet improves on the turn

durron597 · #1 09-15-2005, 10:18 AM

Villian in this hand is tight preflop and a very good player. What do you do differently, if anything?

As far as folding preflop, I am ahead of Villians preflop range, which could include ATo, 77, KQ. If Villian was in earlier position I would fold.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP2 (t1500)
CO (t1920)
Button (t1635)
SB (t1725)
Hero (t2305)
UTG (t1230)
UTG+1 (t1555)
MP1 (t1630)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t120, 3 folds, Hero calls t90.

Flop: (t255) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t150, MP2 calls t150.

Turn: (t555) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t300, MP2 raises to t750, Hero calls t450.

River: (t2055) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t480 (All-In), Hero calls t480.

Final Pot: t3015

Jman28 · #2 09-15-2005, 10:25 AM

Interesting lead out on the flop. I'm not sure if I like it. Need to think about it a little.

Good bet on the turn. I'd push to the reraise.

Not a huge difference in results that way (money prolly gets in on river if he has either flush draw), but when a scare card hits (like Tc), he will check behind most hands that you beat (AJ, KQ).

durron597 · #3 09-15-2005, 10:48 AM

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Interesting lead out on the flop. I'm not sure if I like it. Need to think about it a little.

Good bet on the turn. I'd push to the reraise.

Not a huge difference in results that way (money prolly gets in on river if he has either flush draw), but when a scare card hits (like Tc), he will check behind most hands that you beat (AJ, KQ).

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What range of hands do you put a good player on here after the turn raise?

#4 09-15-2005, 10:58 AM

Good question. The play is quite confusing here. I don't think a good player slow-plays TPTK, a high PP or even a set with 2 clubs on that flop. And I don't think he'd raise PF with QJ at a relatively full table. Strange. Fold PF [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Rduke55 · #5 09-15-2005, 11:43 AM

I can't figure out if his turn raise is a milking bet or not. I would think not on a connected board with two flush draws if he's got AA, KK, or a set.
I'd probably call the river. Your call of his raise followed by the river check may look weak so he may do this with a lot of hands you beat since he's committed.
Anyone like the villian for AKh and raised on the turn with the nut flush draw, overcards, and gutshot?

stillbr · #6 09-15-2005, 11:58 AM

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What range of hands do you put a good player on here after the turn raise?

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Hmm..maybe AcJc, big pocket pair, total bluff? His river push suggests a bluff or a big pocket pair I guess.

barry111 · #7 09-15-2005, 12:49 PM

The only thing I can say is I think you are beat here. His PFR range is wide here, but I think he hit the flop and improved on the turn or river. Anyway can you post the results so I can try an analyze the villains thought process?

durron597 · #8 09-15-2005, 01:37 PM

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Hmm..maybe AcJc, big pocket pair, total bluff? His river push suggests a bluff or a big pocket pair I guess.

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So Villian never ever has QJ or a set here? And do you think a good player is ever total bluffing here on the river (assuming he knows I am a good player?) given the pot size?

#9 09-15-2005, 02:06 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by a good player. A very good 25+2 player might read your flop bet as weakness if he knows you're good (why not let him c-bet?), in which case his calling range is rather wide (although no raise is somewhat suspicious).

However, I think any decent player has a pretty slim range of hands that they raise small on the turn with (he's clearly not trying to price out a draw). I think it's either a set or nut flush draw. I like your play here on turn and river--not sure about flop bet.

What do you do on river if a club falls?

durron597 · #10 09-15-2005, 02:21 PM

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I'm not sure what you mean by a good player. A very good 25+2 player might read your flop bet as weakness if he knows you're good

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Taking initiative cannot be read as clear weakness, it really could be a whole lot of things.

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(why not let him c-bet?),

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Because most of the time I can make his AK,TT/99 be very nervous and sometimes even fold. And if I get raised it's an easy muck, whereas if he bets it could be with hands he might fold if I bet the flop, whereas a checkraise could be expensive and gets a ton of chips in against what a lot of times is a better hand.