Running badly (Long 5000th post)

durron597 · #1 09-13-2005, 10:59 PM

So, for my 5000th post, I will attempt to determine why I am running so badly, and why I think moving up will help. The bad beats aren't helping, but they aren't the main concern.

1) I am much too loose in levels 1 and 2. Basically the problem is that I overvalue implied odds in many situations. But I am working on this, and I think I would play tighter in a higher buyin game. I get myself caught up in logic like "he's a low buyin donk, he will pay me off".

2) The other problem that I am having is FPS. I give cards when I shouldn't, I make plays on pots that I shouldn't. Below is an example where I make an assumption that I have no good reason to make, and act accordingly.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t1035)
CO (t1165)
Button (t3640)
Hero (t1450)
BB (t845)
UTG (t2130)
UTG+1 (t1770)
MP1 (t1465)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to t150, Hero raises to t1475, BB calls t695 (All-In).

Flop: (t2320) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2320) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2320) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2320

Results in white below: 
BB has Td Th (two pair, tens and threes).
Hero has As 7h (two pair, sevens and threes).
Outcome: BB wins t1690. Hero wins t630. 

3) The third problem is that I overestimate FE on the bubble. Below is a (low content) extreme example.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

Hero (t2015)
SB (t1925)
BB (t675)
UTG (t920)
MP (t7965)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t2015, SB calls t1825 (All-In), 1 fold.

Flop: (t4140) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t4140) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4140) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4140

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad 2d (one pair, twos).
SB has As 3c (one pair, threes).
Outcome: SB wins t4050. Hero wins t90.

MegaBet · #2 09-13-2005, 11:17 PM

I hate hate HATE showing down weak aces unless I either have a read that my opponent is weak and will fold, or I'm heads up. Hand 2 was 10x worse than Hand 1 (which was pretty bad in itself).

durron597 · #3 09-13-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate hate HATE showing down weak aces unless I either have a read that my opponent is weak and will fold, or I'm heads up. Hand 2 was 10x worse than Hand 1 (which was pretty bad in itself).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Hand 2 is fine, I just didn't realize that the SB was a [censored] moron. Hand 1 is just dumb, I should raise and fold to a reraise, or call and fold to a raise without a read.

#4 09-13-2005, 11:24 PM

Hand 1 is an easy fold preflop for me. Weak aces just plain suck, and I hate them, and I hope they die.

While at the same time hand2 is fine, and SB is indeed, a moron for calling.

bones · #5 09-13-2005, 11:26 PM

I disagree that hand 2 was fine. You aren't in bad shape, it's not the bubble yet, and bad aces are almost never in great shape. Sure the SB is an idiot, but poker is full of idiots.

octaveshift · #6 09-13-2005, 11:29 PM

I wholeheartedly believe that you should move up. This is all OPINION, so if someone takes exception to it, please STFU.

That said, I think the added "self-awareness" you will bring to a higher buyin table will do wonders for your game.

You know some of the moves you are making now are not correct, but you are making them anyway. I see this as a symptom of not really caring about the money on the line, or just plain old boredom.

Clearly you have interest in making more "advanced" and nuanced moves, but at the lower limits, these plays are suicide. Even the Party 55s are best abused with straight-up value poker.

Should you play outside of your bankroll? No. Should you play at a level where losing the buyin means something to you? I certainly think so.

If you want to continue developing your skillset, you're going to have to start playing with better players.

And there's no time like the present....

MegaBet · #7 09-13-2005, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate hate HATE showing down weak aces unless I either have a read that my opponent is weak and will fold, or I'm heads up. Hand 2 was 10x worse than Hand 1 (which was pretty bad in itself).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Hand 2 is fine, I just didn't realize that the SB was a [censored] moron. Hand 1 is just dumb, I should raise and fold to a reraise, or call and fold to a raise without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't like it is because I hate pushing into a bigger/equally large stack from the small blind late in the game, especially when you're not desperate and have 2 much smaller stacks waiting to be exploited. People spite call, or call with hands they think are better if they feel you are stealing. My personal preference.

GrekeHaus · #8 09-13-2005, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) I am much too loose in levels 1 and 2. Basically the problem is that I overvalue implied odds in many situations. But I am working on this, and I think I would play tighter in a higher buyin game. I get myself caught up in logic like "he's a low buyin donk, he will pay me off".

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've already figured out that you're overestimating your implied odds, then why haven't you adjusted at the current level? If you can't do this, I don't think moving up will help. You will either:

a) Find out the players at the new level are donks and regress to your current state or
b) Find out the players aren't donks and end up faced with a whole new set of more difficult problems to solve.

The only solution to this is to start being more disciplined. Deep down, you already know when you're making a bad, loose call. Just listen to your instincts and fold. Don't talk yourself into a call.

[ QUOTE ]
2) The other problem that I am having is FPS. I give cards when I shouldn't, I make plays on pots that I shouldn't. Below is an example where I make an assumption that I have no good reason to make, and act accordingly.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t1035)
CO (t1165)
Button (t3640)
Hero (t1450)
BB (t845)
UTG (t2130)
UTG+1 (t1770)
MP1 (t1465)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to t150, Hero raises to t1475, BB calls t695 (All-In).

Flop: (t2320) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2320) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2320) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2320

Results in white below: 
BB has Td Th (two pair, tens and threes).
Hero has As 7h (two pair, sevens and threes).
Outcome: BB wins t1690. Hero wins t630. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is pretty awful and completely contradicts your thinking for #1. In #1 you assumed the donk will pay you off, in this one, you're assuming he'll fold. What's he gonna do? Nothing wrong with a steal-raise here, but a play like this is just spewing chips all over your opponent's face.

[ QUOTE ]
3) The third problem is that I overestimate FE on the bubble. Below is a (low content) extreme example.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

Hero (t2015)
SB (t1925)
BB (t675)
UTG (t920)
MP (t7965)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t2015, SB calls t1825 (All-In), 1 fold.

Flop: (t4140) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t4140) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4140) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4140

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad 2d (one pair, twos).
SB has As 3c (one pair, threes).
Outcome: SB wins t4050. Hero wins t90. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't think this is a bad play with 10xBB. You have a decent hand here and you don't want the BB to have a chance to get any free chips. The SB will wake up with a hand from time to time, but not enough to make this -EV. Obviously, you'd also rather the BB folds here, but he's going to call with a large range and you'll be ahead of a lot of it.

KramerTM · #9 09-13-2005, 11:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) I am much too loose in levels 1 and 2. Basically the problem is that I overvalue implied odds in many situations. But I am working on this, and I think I would play tighter in a higher buyin game. I get myself caught up in logic like "he's a low buyin donk, he will pay me off".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this can definitely lead to some early exits from those games. The thing I like to remind myself when I feel like I am playing too loose early on is that these SnGs can be won without playing a single hand until level 3 (maybe even level 4, but that's certainly "pushing" it). That really helps me tighten up and also not get frustrated at all when my AA or KK just happens to win the level 1 blinds.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 2.
2 folds, Hero raises to t2015, SB calls t1825 (All-In), 1 fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This really isn't all that bad. You just happen to run into an idiot what calls with A3 there (which is terrible, BTW). Make a note on him, and use it against him next time.

durron, I don't tell many people this, but I have faith in you man. You'll be tearing up these games again real soon, just keep playing your game and posting for us.

What limits you living at these days, BTW?

Good luck bro.

KramerTM · #10 09-13-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
especially when you're not desperate

[/ QUOTE ]

If pushing is only a desperation option for you, then you have much to learn.