Chasing or following the odds? Need advice.

[DaNoob]

I'm at work, so I am going to paste the hand history in the post and forego the usual cosmetic enhancements. I apologize in advance for the ugly appearance. Both of these are what I would consider typical drawing hands, and both make me wonder what the right play is on all streets. I'm still new to pot odds, etc, so this will probably be a no-brainer to the more experienced folks on the site. Also, the stakes are tiny, but the principles should remain the same, so don't laugh when you see the $$ figures.

Hero (or ding-dong perhaps) in question is Senorstinky:

GAME 1:

senorstinky: posts small blind $0.02
bigmalbowski: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to senorstinky [5s 6h]
EL-KOCKO: calls $0.05
tigger64: folds
evmax: calls $0.05
Kneten: folds
Spidey0034: folds
Trapper: folds
7777GRANNY: calls $0.05
WireNut: calls $0.05
senorstinky: calls $0.03
bigmalbowski: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qc 4h 3d]
senorstinky: checks
bigmalbowski: checks
EL-KOCKO: bets $0.05
evmax: calls $0.05
7777GRANNY: calls $0.05
WireNut: calls $0.05
senorstinky: calls $0.05
bigmalbowski: folds
*** TURN *** [Qc 4h 3d] [Jc]
senorstinky: checks
EL-KOCKO: bets $0.10
evmax: calls $0.10
7777GRANNY: calls $0.10
WireNut: calls $0.10
senorstinky: calls $0.10
*** RIVER *** [Qc 4h 3d Jc] [Td]
senorstinky: checks
EL-KOCKO: checks
evmax: checks
7777GRANNY: checks
WireNut: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
senorstinky: shows [5s 6h] (high card Queen)
EL-KOCKO: shows [Qs 6s] (a pair of Queens)
evmax: mucks hand
7777GRANNY: mucks hand
WireNut: mucks hand
EL-KOCKO collected $1.05 from pot

GAME 2:

WireNut: posts small blind $0.02
senorstinky: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to senorstinky [9c 5d]
bigmalbowski: calls $0.05
EL-KOCKO: calls $0.05
tigger64: calls $0.05
evmax: folds
Kneten: calls $0.05
Spidey0034: raises $0.05 to $0.10
Trapper: calls $0.10
7777GRANNY: folds
WireNut: folds
senorstinky: calls $0.05
bigmalbowski: calls $0.05
EL-KOCKO: calls $0.05
tigger64: calls $0.05
Kneten: calls $0.05
*** FLOP *** [Kc 9h Ah]
senorstinky: checks
bigmalbowski: checks
EL-KOCKO: checks
tigger64: checks
Kneten: checks
Spidey0034: bets $0.01 and is all-in
Trapper: calls $0.01
senorstinky: calls $0.01
bigmalbowski: calls $0.01
EL-KOCKO: calls $0.01
tigger64: folds
Kneten: calls $0.01
*** TURN *** [Kc 9h Ah] [3d]
senorstinky: checks
bigmalbowski: bets $0.10
EL-KOCKO: folds
Kneten: calls $0.10
Trapper: folds
senorstinky: folds
*** RIVER *** [Kc 9h Ah 3d] [2d]
bigmalbowski: checks
Kneten: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bigmalbowski: shows [Ts Ks] (a pair of Kings)
Kneten: mucks hand
bigmalbowski collected $0.20 from side pot
Spidey0034: shows [Ac Jd] (a pair of Aces)
Spidey0034 collected $0.78 from main pot


1-Should i have folded pre-flop on both hands?
2-Given the flop, was it right to call, should i have raised or mucked instead?
3-On the turn, are the pot odds still there?
4-Call, call, call, muck. Is this weak play or smart given the fact that I don't have crp?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Homer]

Hand 1

Preflop - Fold. 9:1 isn't enough to call from the SB with 65o, imo.

Flop - Calling with an open-ended straight draw on a rainbow, unpaired board is a no-brainer getting 10:1. You are 39:8 (about 5:1) against making your hand on the turn, so 10:1 is more than enough to call.

Turn - Call again. You are getting 9.5:1 with about the same odds (actually slightly better) of making your hand on the river as making it on the turn.

Comments - There's nothing wrong with the way you played the hand postflop. It is often correct to check-call with your drawing hands. Another option would have been to bet your draw on the flop, especially since there are so many players. Since you are about 2:1 to get there by the river, it is a value bet if you get 3 or more callers. Plus you may be able to eliminate some overcards, which could make a 5 or 6 good if you catch one of those cards. I would only do this at a passive table. If your opponents are aggressive, I would check-call and see the turn/river as cheaply as possible.

Hand 2

Preflop - Fold. 13.5:1 isn't enough to call from the SB with 95o, imo.

Flop - Correct call getting huge odds. If it is raised behind you take it from there. But you shouldn't worry about that because you're getting like 70:1 on the 1 cent call.

Turn - Good fold getting 9.5:1. If all 5 of your outs are clean you are 8.2:1 against catching on the river, making it a call. However, a heart 5 may not be good (which means you are 10.5:1 against catching), plus you may already be behind a better two-pair, so it is possible that no 5 is good.

-- Homer

[Nottom]

1) Yes, fold preflop ... even from the blinds.

2) Calling is fine in both cases on the flop ... in the second hand only because the .01 bet might as well be a check.

3) In hand 1: yes, Hand 2: no You played them fine.

4) Aside from playing the hands to begin with, your play was fine ... you had bad position both hands so your options were limited. If you were in LP on hand 1, I would encourage you to try for a free card.

[Bob T.]

On hand 1, you have the odds to chase all the way, you don't have any reason to raise at any point.

On hand 2, fold preflop, you have nothing.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I wouldn't play either hand preflop.

[Franchise (TTT)]

Folding 65o for half a bet, with that many limpers? No way.

[Nottom]

Normally I'd agree that its an acceptable limp from the SB, but as a beginning player who is still working on pot odds and things, he's probably better off tossing hands like this and staying out of trouble.

I only wish I played the same way I know I should.

[DaNoob]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Folding 65o for half a bet, with that many limpers? No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main theme above is that I should have folded this hand pre-flop. Yet, with 56, even though it's not suited, it seems like I might have some interesting outs against the rest of the field. If the straight HAD hit (i know that's a big if), it probably would have paid very well.

So, for 3/5 of a small bet, does it make sense to call in this situation? If u think the BB will raise, is this an easy fold?

[Vehn]

65o is an easy easy call preflop in the small blind after 4 limpers. In general, your implied odds are terrible when you don't have any cards in front of you.

[mikeca]

I think this depends on game conditions. If there are players limping with any two suited cards and any pocket pair, this is probably a bad call. You will make your straight too many times and get beaten by a flush or a boat. In most micro-limits games, I would stay away from small unsuited connectors. You also have to know what to do with 2nd or 3rd pair, because you will flop that much more often than a good straight draw.