Is this the worst common play?

[Bob T.]

Today, I was playing in a game with a weak loose player to my left. He just had to see the flop, but if he missed, he folded like a house of cards. I think about four or five times we had this sequence.

I open raise. He coldcalls. Two to the flop.

There is a flop.

I bet, he folds.

Including the big blinds money, he is getting 6 to 1 pot odds right now. What hand could you reasonably or even unreasonably cold call with, that you aren't at least a 1 to 6 underdog with on the flop?

So my guy is making two mistakes here, he is coldcalling, and probably coldcalling loosely, and then, unless he coldcalled with 23 offsuit he probably has enough outs to see the turn at least. I just see this sequence all of the time, and whenever I do see it, I know that I have a player that is ready to be taken advantage of in a lot of different ways.

If you ever see yourself doing this, I think that you have one huge leak that is easy to fix.

Comments? any other common plays that seem to be always wrong?

[Joe Tall]

You're right on with this one. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I find this happens often with loosey fish online. I VERY RARELY cold call...only if there is something like 4 cold callers to me after UTG-mainiac raised pre-flop w/any-two...and I'm holding pocket 4s and odds to pop a set in a big pot.

I open raise if I'm going to play in EP and ram-it up if in the right situation, such that, loose-UTG open-raises, solid MP makes it 3, CO cold calls...I ram it to 4 bets with AQs on the button...call me aggressive but I'll fit-or-fold on the flop, hopefully getting a free card. My point is I can't release this hand in LP and I can't cold call with it either (Unless, MP is a rock and I'm 90% sure he has a pocket pair). Plus, I have no problem when Qxx hits, MP bets, I raise, MP reraises (now I know he's got KK or better). I'll call or fold depending on the size of the pot.

Since we're talking small stakes, my most common mistake is bluffing fish in .50/1, or 1/2, more often than not, they'll call down with any piece of the flop or just plain ANYTHING...yesterday I witnessed a UTG-limper call down when the board was 3-flush&paired with POCKET 2s!! (I grabbed the hand history and couldn't believe it, obviously he lost.)

The most common mistake I see in LL is fish calling preflop w/Ax. I've got player labels for this - AAAP (any ace any position), I pull down quite a few pots by limping with/AJo in LP after one limper, Ace hits, limper bets, I raise...he pays off as I out-kick him. Yesterday, this happened and then the EP said, 'damn-kicker' and I replied, '...funny how that works'

Peace.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Great post. Again it underscores why, when acting after a pre-flop raise, your decision should almost always be reraise/fold. Look at your cards, ask yourself "is this hand worth making it 3-bets?" If the answer is anything but a decisive *yes*, the cards go in the muck. For new players especially, this is one of the best ways to begin learning to play the game right.

[Homer]

Look at your cards, ask yourself "is this hand worth making it 3-bets?" If the answer is anything but a decisive *yes*, the cards go in the muck.

I think this is a good general rule for beginners, but there are some exceptions, specifically when there have already been a few coldcallers to you in late position. Small-medium pairs and big suited hands like AJs and KQs are worth a call but not a reraise. However, mucking these hands isn't a huge mistake I don't think, so I suppose I might just be nitpicking.

-- Homer

[eMarkM]

Again it underscores why, when acting after a pre-flop raise, your decision should almost always be reraise/fold.

I finally started following this advice religiously about six months ago, and this little tidbit alone cuts your preflop flop % down drastically when followed. As Homer points out, there's plenty of exceptions, mostly involving having a bunch of others already calling the raise, but you should almost NEVER be the first to call a raise (except from blinds). Especially one from EP. Either the hand's good enough for a 3 bet or you fold it. It's the lesser group 2 hands that most people do this with. It's basically Feeny's AQ test. If you're coldcalling EP raises (from a decent, non-maniac) with AQo (the bottom of group 2 hands), you're playing too loosely.

In Bob's example, if the player had 3 bet and bet when checked to on the flop, there's a good chance Bob would have to fold if he doesn't connect. When just cold calling, Bob bets out and the caller is the one who has to make the descision.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Good points, Homer. Clarifies the exceptions to "almost always"

[marbles]

No bad play is as common as limping Axo after limpers. Compounding the mistake is the fact that most people who do it have no idea how to play it postflop.

Last I looked at Pokerroom's stats, A2o has a lower historical EV than 72o. That just ain't right, man.

[tewall]

How about if you have a hand like Ax suited and you know if you call many people will see the flop for 2 bets?

[Joe Tall]

...specifically when there have already been a few coldcallers to you in late position. Small-medium pairs and big suited hands like AJs and KQs are worth a call but not a reraise. However, mucking these hands isn't a huge mistake I don't think, so I suppose I might just be nitpicking.

Good point. This is all pre-flop NUMBER dependant, true.

We are in the CO or Button:
1. We have a solid-EP raiser, all fold you to you. AJs, KQs muck.
2. We have a tilting-loose-cannon, 2 cold-call to you, AJs - I raise here, gentlemen. I have a drawing hand and want to maximize if I hit, and have pure confindence in how to play it if an A or J hits. KQs and small-medium pairs (88-TT) - I cold call. 3 cold-callers in front (55-77) cold call. Family-ram-jam (all pairs) cold call.

[Nottom]

Lately it seems everytime I get against an "AAAP" player and limp or raise with AJ in LP its the time he has AK and didn't raise, either that or he pairs his kicker. Then again, I seem to be about the unluckiest person alive recently.