Standard 10/20 preflop play?

Mr. Curious · #1 09-09-2005, 03:54 AM

It has been a while since I've played limit, so I thought I'd double check a few preflop decisions from today:

Live 10-20
9 handed

Hand 1:

My first two hands (BB & SB) resulted in chops. This is my third hand at the table.

Hero is on the button with 66

Preflop: Folded to CO who raises, Hero folds...

<In hindsight, this could have been a steal. Was Hero's fold correct or would the better play have been to 3-bet (or just call)?>

Hand 2:

MP2 is a thinking TAG.

Hero is the SB with AQo

Preflop: UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 (TAG) 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero folds...

<I'd have called if it was suited, but I'm used to NL and this hand is toast to a re-raise (and most raises)>

Hand 3:

Hero is UTG+1 with KQo

Preflop: UTG calls, Hero calls...

<Should this be a raise rather than a call?>

SlyGuy · #2 09-09-2005, 04:04 AM

I think all are good.

#3 09-09-2005, 04:12 AM

My two cents:

Hand one:

Calling is not an option. 3 bet or fold. Personally, I just fold. All the prior folds indicate the deck should now be rich in big cards. It's likely that overs will flop and if you don't hit your set it becomes an expensive guessing game.

OTOH, I can't argue too much with someone who advocates 3 betting here but it's just not for me.

Hand 2:

I fold that hand without thinking about it for a moment. A-Qo in bad position with a good player making it 3 bets and a cold calling button? Ugh! If anybody wants to buy that hand from me they can have it for a dollar.

Hand 3:

KQo looks nice but it's a trouble hand as well. I suppose that an argument could be made for raising but I hardly like to play it at all up front. That doesn't mean I don't but I want a loose game with passive, unobservant players. If the game is full of good players, who know what I'm doing, I won't play it in that spot at all.

Mr. Curious · #4 09-09-2005, 04:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My two cents:

Hand one:

Calling is not an option. 3 bet or fold. Personally, I just fold. All the prior folds indicate the deck should now be rich in big cards. It's likely that overs will flop and if you don't hit your set it becomes an expensive guessing game.

OTOH, I can't argue too much with someone who advocates 3 betting here but it's just not for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Had I been at the table longer and gotten a better feel for it, this would have been an auto 3-bet against the CO.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

I fold that hand without thinking about it for a moment. A-Qo in bad position with a good player making it 3 bets and a cold calling button? Ugh! If anybody wants to buy that hand from me they can have it for a dollar.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was figuring, though the TAG's 3-bet could also have been an isolation bet against that opponent. But when the button cold called...

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3:

KQo looks nice but it's a trouble hand as well. I suppose that an argument could be made for raising but I hardly like to play it at all up front. That doesn't mean I don't but I want a loose game with passive, unobservant players. If the game is full of good players, who know what I'm doing, I won't play it in that spot at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By this time, the TAG was gone and the table had loosened up a bit (forgot to add that to the hand). There was maybe one decent player left at the table. Does that change things?

#5 09-09-2005, 06:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By this time, the TAG was gone and the table had loosened up a bit (forgot to add that to the hand). There was maybe one decent player left at the table. Does that change things?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, IMO! I play it every time in a loose game (that's the only kind of game I'll play in anymore, actually, and if they tighten up I leave, there are so many other games to choose from and I play all forms of poker) against players who will call down with lesser hands/pieces of the flop. I'll try to randomize raises with that hand as well but when the other players aren't even watching it doesn't make much difference. They see their hand, it's half-way decent, and they won't let it go. KQo is a big hand in that kind of game. But, still, you have to face reality. It's a vulnerable hand, it can cost you money, because "even a blind squirrel.............."

Carmine · #6 09-09-2005, 06:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]

All the prior folds indicate the deck should now be rich in big cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to say this nicely. This is not the most brilliant statement ever posted on this site.

Back to the questions. To get a better idea of what's appropriate at 10/20 the Mid-High forum would serve you better. Problem is if posted there the responses will probaly be: If you need to ask basic PF questions you should move down in limits.

For SS:
Hand#1 - is tough, at least for me, without knowing something about the table. If I can't 3-bet to fold out the blinds I would just let it go.

Hand #2- Well played

Hand #3- I raise with one limper in front of me trying to isolate him. Of course the table and the UTG limper may change things.

Petteri · #7 09-09-2005, 06:47 AM

Hand 3:

Hero is UTG+1 with KQo

Preflop: UTG calls, Hero calls...

<Should this be a raise rather than a call?>

[/ QUOTE ]

This borderline situation between folding, calling and raising.

If there is many very aggressive players acting after me I fold.
If table is somehow passive I call.
If UTG is somehow loose and rest of the table is tight I raise.

#8 09-09-2005, 07:06 AM

First of all, I do not chop. Not that I wouldn't, if the situation arose, but I do not play in games where chops can occur. Why would you? 9 handed and no one can find some trash worth playing? That my friend is not a game to play in.

I also challenge the three bet or fold from the first hand. I think three betting MAY make the hand HARDER to play at times. Often three betting will tie you to show down, but cold calling can allow you to float in and out of the hand.

TemetNosce · #9 09-09-2005, 07:26 AM

Hand 1: 3-bet or fold. Leaning toward 3-bet.

Hand 2: Easy fold.

Hand 3: Fine.

ErrantNight · #10 09-09-2005, 08:15 AM

hand 1 you can cold-call or reraise with

hand 2 is a good fold. caveat: if you and the TAG both read UTG to be a maniac/uttermoron/guythatraisesreally light, it might sometime be ok to play here if you suspect the TAG of isolating. but since you gave zero indication of such specific situation...

hand 3 easy raise