Standard laydown with QQ?

[private joker]

Villain (SB) is 17/5/2, and also plays 6-max where he's 30/13. So he seems pretty decent, maybe a bit passive preflop.

BB is 50/4/0.5, a terrible player.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB

[Borodog]

Yep.

[Moneyline]

I'd muck it too in most cases. The only exceptions would be if I was against an opponent who I had seen raise draws on the turn more than occasionally before, or if I knew the raiser thought I was very weak.

[Dagger78]

I hate it, but fold it here.

[Bodhi]

Yes, it is standard, if there is such a thing as 'standard.' [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] A lot of the time you're beat here even when the turn is a brick.

[TemetNosce]

Standard laydown. With the 3rd player (BB) in the hand, it's a certainty that you are beaten. The SB isn't likely to put a move on you here because of the presence of the 3rd player.

[W. Deranged]

Nice hand, PJ.

[Nick C]

When I make these folds, I sometimes wonder how it is that my opponent happens to have me beat, and so I'm very tempted to call down. It doesn't seem like I win very often when I give into such temptation.

I mean, SB probably has something like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that he made a loose call with preflop because he was in the blinds. Or maybe he has AK and didn't 3-bet preflop and wasn't ready to release yet on the flop. Or maybe he has AJ and planned to checkraise the flop but got intimidated by the action. A hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is another possibility. Or perhaps you're up against an A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hand that SB stubbornly hung on with on the flop. Or maybe he has 88/55 and had you crushed already on the flop.

If SB is making a play, he's making it against two players. The sequence of those two players is good for him (he gets to face the loose one with two cold and the thinking player might fold for just one more). But I doubt he's making a play, and how many draws that you're beating are available, really? Sure, there are a couple of OESD's, but he'd probably play those strongly on the flop instead if he was going to play his draw strongly. And since you hold the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], the number of available flush draws your tight opponent could have goes down significantly, even if by some chance he would wake up on the turn with a flopped flush draw.

Anyway, I think that on occasion your opponent probably will just have KJs or something, for second pair. But I doubt that's what he'll have often enough.

If the checkraise had occurred with the pot already heads-up, I'd like your chances better (though I'd still expect to lose if I decided to call down).