Is my river thinking all kinds of bad?

[Tyler Durden]

This hand happened at a good home game where the limits were $7.50/$15.00. Pink chips! As one guy pointed out, you have to be really comfortable with who you are to play with pink chips.

I check in the BB w/ A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]. There were three limpers to me and the SB threw in another chip.

Flop came 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]. The SB checks. I bet with my third pair/top kicker and nut flush draw. I get raised by a guy in MP who I've played with many times before and he's a good player. Folded back to me so we're heads up. I call his raise.

The turn is an offsuit brick. He checks behind me. At this point I figure he's got a big club and that's good for me, plus I'm in the lead if he doesn't have a pair.

The river is the T [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]. I check, he bets, I raise, he calls, and I drag the pot. He showed K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]. I started thinking about this river play during my commute to work this morning. If he has a big club, I should have bet out and let him raise me so I could 3-bet. Am I right? Also, was I wrong in not betting the turn? Should I have been able to read his flop raise as just trying to get a free turn card?

Thoughts on all streets would be greatly appreciated. Particularly the river. But also the turn.

P.S. Exactly 35 days till I leave for Vegas!

[Buckshot]

"If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, oh what a Christmas party we'd have!"

Your line of questions seem to be results oriented.

Ask yourself, does the pair of 2's make a difference in betting or checking the turn? Did you think the 2's were the best hand? If you had the A[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] would you bet the flop? Would you have called to the river with this hand? The only saving grace with this hand, in your mind, is that you have a pair with the nut flush draw.

If it were me I would have bet the river.

~stephen

[marbles]

Call me loose, but I'd 3-bet that flop about half the time. The way the hand played out, though, I'd definitely bet that river. If he holds a big club, there's a good chance he'll raise, and if he doesn't, there's a good chance he would let it check through.

[rtucker5]

I think you played the flop well. I wouldn't want to 3 bet here heads up. I would consider a 3 bet if there was a cold caller or 2. You could bet the turn, but it makes the river play more difficult if he flat calls the turn and you don't improve. When he checks behind on the turn I would assume he is on the flush draw or was raising with overcards to get to the river for free. I would play the river the same way you did. If he doesn't have a club, he will not call a bet anyway so you lose nothing if it checks through. He might take a shot at the pot though, and you can check-raise. If he has a club, he will bet when checked to so you can check-raise.

[Tyler Durden]

...that I missed a bet? Because if I bet, he'll raise me with the King and I'd 3-bet. I'm fairly sure he would have raised me in this spot. What do you think?

[JimRivett]

My feeling would be that if a good player in middle position raised me on that flop, I would put him on either a set or a big draw. I would call the flop raise, and bet into him in the turn, if raised I woukd call, and if I missed on the river I can check fold.

For what it's worth I would definitely bet into him on the river in this case.

Jim

[Inthacup]

I think you missed a bet, but it was on the turn. Bet out the turn, and bet out the river, hoping he raises.

[Tyler Durden]

Well then I missed two bets, don't you agree?

The turn bet he would have called, plus the 3-bet on the river that he also would have called.

But I'm not sure I can bet this turn.

[Tommy Angelo]

Hi Tyler,

I think it's best to bet the river with the nuts, period. I know I'm on solid ground here because I learned it direct and in person from Barry T.

"I get raised by a guy in MP who I've played with many times before and he's a good player."

A good player is not going to hand you three big bets on the river with a four-flush on board and you looking at the ace. All the more reason to bet out on the river to make sure you collect one bet if he was planning to check behind with a pair or small flush. Checking into a good player on the river with your hand is a gamble. Betting into a good player on the river after it goes bet-raise-call on the flop and check-check on the turn is the routine right play for many many holdings.

Good luck in Vegas.

Tommy

[astroglide]

people will raise a hand like Qc8s here too. i would have checkraised the river as well, as the king is about the only club with which i could hope he'd raise me.