straight + straight flush draw = ?

mikelow · #1 04-16-2003, 09:42 PM

Playing 10-20 onlline last night, I pick up Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] in the cutoff.

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP raises and the player on my right
calls. I three-bet to build a pot with this drawing hand (lots of cold callers in this game) and try to gain position. The button obliges with a cold call. SB folds and the BB calls. Six of us in for three bets each.

Flop is:

K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG bets and UTG + 1 calls. I raise, and when the smoke clears it's capped! Four of us still in. Is the big straight there?
Turn is:

[K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] .

Big hand, big draw, but not the nuts. UTG bets, UTG +1 calls
(a set for sure), and I raise. All others fold and UTG three bets and UTG+1 calls. Would you put in another raise?

Results to follow later.

Softrock · #2 04-16-2003, 09:58 PM

If you're against AJ and a set then you are down to 8 outs, King diamonds beats you. If you are against another J without the Ace then you are getting half a bet from the set for each additional bet made if the board doesn't pair, and your flush misses. I doubt you could get a J to lay it down. I would say probably not reraise unless you really thought you could get a J to lay down. However, it doesn't look to me like you're losing much with another bet so another consideration is how it might affect your image for the near future. All in all I think it's pretty close. (Any chance you are against two lone Jacks and you're freerolling?).

PokerPrince · #3 04-16-2003, 10:25 PM

K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] doesn't beat him, it gives him a straight flush.

PokerPrince

elysium · #4 04-16-2003, 11:33 PM

hi mike
you should fold pre-flop.
call, do not reraise the raisers. it looks a lot like AJs and you have all kinds of problems here. call, you're splitting the pot at best unless you two out. you may not have 9 outs here either, just looks bad here mike.

Tyler Durden · #5 04-17-2003, 11:10 AM

I think 3-betting pre-flop is bad. And it didn't buy you the button. You probably felt obligated to raise the flop b/c of your 3-bet preflop, which is a classic example of compounding errors.

astroglide · #6 04-17-2003, 12:33 PM

i can see calling preflop in this kind of game, but i think 3betting is a 100% bad play. you're going to need a lot more than a jxx flop to take this one down. it's not worth reducing your opponents to 3bet an implied hand.

i don't see the point of the raise on the flop either, as it's not likely you're ahead and it is likely you're against plenty of aces (which are your straight outs), probably chopping the pot if you hit, and possibly losing to aj anyway.

i would not raise again on the turn, and i probably wouldn't raise the turn the first time either.

mike l. · #7 04-17-2003, 02:21 PM

no way. youre definitely looking at AJ at the other side of the table.

Tommy Angelo · #8 04-17-2003, 02:31 PM

I love the reraise preflop at a B&M game with the right people already in and players on the button and blinds who will fold unless they have a monster.

To all who so far said the preflop raise is bad, is that because it's online? Could the raise be right offline? And that's another thing. What the heck do we call a regular old-fashioned poker game with breathing people in it? If an online game is called an online game, what is a non-online game called?

As to postflop, I would not raise on the flop or turn.

Tommy

astroglide · #9 04-17-2003, 02:52 PM

offline is fine, casino is fine, b&m (brick and mortar) is fine, etc. i think it's pretty much assumed it's a casino game unless it's declared to be online.

as to your question, i cannot imagine making this play offline or online.

mikelow · #10 04-17-2003, 05:31 PM

Yes, I have to agree with those who think my three-bet before the flop was pretty silly.

This hand was way way overplayed, but I didn't put in any more raises. River was:

[K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

A brick, to be sure. UTG bet and was called by me and the button. The button showed 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] and UTG was on Broadway with A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .